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>I believe that Bitcoin will have an important (and positive) future in our lives. Can you elaborate how? From my point of view, the reason the general tech co

>I believe that Bitcoin will have an important (and positive) future in our lives. Can you elaborate how? From my point of view, the reason the general tech community despises crypto is precisely because of that; every now and then someone shows up saying that the tech is important and positive, yet none of them can come up with a single valid reason why. For people who are outside of it, the answer to why this is the case is clear.

neb_b 5y ago
It allows for uncensorable transactions. Which is an improvement to people living in authoritarian countries with governments trying to stop its citizens from saving and transacting freely.
- ops 5y ago
  If authoritarian governments can monitor and track the transactions, then arrest those people who make transactions that the government considers illegal, it seems pretty censorable.
  - neb_b 5y ago
    There are ways to avoid your transactions being tracked. Coinjoin transactions, purchasing a miner for non-kyc bitcoin, payments on the lightning network, etc
    - ops 5y ago
      I can't imagine a quicker way to get on a government watch list than to participate in a Bitcoin mixer. How do you ensure Coinjoin isn't secrely being ran by your authoritarian government?
      - neb_b 5y ago
        You can use a protocol that doesn't allow for a centralized coordinator with insight into the coin paths, like samourai whirlpool. It could potentially be logging ip's but can be accessed through vpn/tor
        ops 5y ago
        How do you know the tor exit nodes and/or VPN aren't being ran by your authoritarian government?
        neb_b 5y ago
        You don't, but all of this makes it harder to track. Even if the government can track you through all of this, you can setup your private keys in a way that your family can still access your money if the government arrests you.
        float4 5y ago
        https://xkcd.com/538 https://xkcd.com/538
        mcphage 5y ago
        It's funny that this comic is from long enough ago that "Crypto" referred to "Cryptography", and yet it is still relevant :-)
laszlo-kiss 5y ago
I think the biggest 'positive' is that the government in control of the currency is unable to alter the value of it. It is clear that inflation is bad for the citizenry, yet that has been done throughout the ages by every dying civilization. I'm simply looking/hoping for a mechanism to stop it. It would be a 'positive' for you too! Is Bitcoin the ultimate answer? I can't say, but it is a good first step.
- Per_Bothner 5y ago
  "It is clear that inflation is bad for the citizenry." No. It is clear that both hyper-inflation and deflation are bad for the citizenry. However, modest inflation is generally a net positive. "yet [inflation] has been done throughout the ages by every dying civilization." Do you have any real data for this? Sounds like bullshit to me. Also, it seems preferable that government be in control of the currency rather than random speculators. Controlling the currency can be a useful tool if used responsibly. If you have bad government, then bitcoin isn't going to save you.
  - laszlo-kiss 5y ago
    Roman Empire is a biggie. The Weimar Republic is the most obvious. I guess we are now arguing 'Austrian Economics' vs. 'Keynesian Economics'... This is a fair simplification. As long as you hold real assets to protect your wealth, the government's debasement of the currency (modest inflation) is of no concern. Clearly, when a person lives from paycheck to paycheck the only concern is "Can I buy food next week?" and "Can I pay the rent on the 1st?". Wealth preservation and modest inflation is not on the radar. However, it is still hurting the man that earns $12/hr, no matter the modesty of the inflation. Just look around right now. Is the current inflation rate modest? Did everyone get a raise to account for the CPI going up? Will everyone get an 8.5% raise next year? In my opinion decoupling the currency from anyone's "control" is the key idea behind Bitcoin.
    - alphabettsy 5y ago
      It doesn’t de-couple it though. Bitcoin can and is manipulated by “whales” just like any other market. If it becomes a reserve currency governments and the very wealthy will still hold the vast majority and thus maintain control right?

neb_b 5y ago

It allows for uncensorable transactions. Which is an improvement to people living in authoritarian countries with governments trying to stop its citizens from saving and transacting freely.

ops 5y ago
If authoritarian governments can monitor and track the transactions, then arrest those people who make transactions that the government considers illegal, it seems pretty censorable.
- neb_b 5y ago
  There are ways to avoid your transactions being tracked. Coinjoin transactions, purchasing a miner for non-kyc bitcoin, payments on the lightning network, etc
  - ops 5y ago
    I can't imagine a quicker way to get on a government watch list than to participate in a Bitcoin mixer. How do you ensure Coinjoin isn't secrely being ran by your authoritarian government?
    - neb_b 5y ago
      You can use a protocol that doesn't allow for a centralized coordinator with insight into the coin paths, like samourai whirlpool. It could potentially be logging ip's but can be accessed through vpn/tor
      - ops 5y ago
        How do you know the tor exit nodes and/or VPN aren't being ran by your authoritarian government?
        neb_b 5y ago
        You don't, but all of this makes it harder to track. Even if the government can track you through all of this, you can setup your private keys in a way that your family can still access your money if the government arrests you.
        float4 5y ago
        https://xkcd.com/538 https://xkcd.com/538
        mcphage 5y ago
        It's funny that this comic is from long enough ago that "Crypto" referred to "Cryptography", and yet it is still relevant :-)

laszlo-kiss 5y ago

I think the biggest 'positive' is that the government in control of the currency is unable to alter the value of it. It is clear that inflation is bad for the citizenry, yet that has been done throughout the ages by every dying civilization. I'm simply looking/hoping for a mechanism to stop it. It would be a 'positive' for you too! Is Bitcoin the ultimate answer? I can't say, but it is a good first step.

Per_Bothner 5y ago
"It is clear that inflation is bad for the citizenry." No. It is clear that both hyper-inflation and deflation are bad for the citizenry. However, modest inflation is generally a net positive. "yet [inflation] has been done throughout the ages by every dying civilization." Do you have any real data for this? Sounds like bullshit to me. Also, it seems preferable that government be in control of the currency rather than random speculators. Controlling the currency can be a useful tool if used responsibly. If you have bad government, then bitcoin isn't going to save you.
- laszlo-kiss 5y ago
  Roman Empire is a biggie. The Weimar Republic is the most obvious. I guess we are now arguing 'Austrian Economics' vs. 'Keynesian Economics'... This is a fair simplification. As long as you hold real assets to protect your wealth, the government's debasement of the currency (modest inflation) is of no concern. Clearly, when a person lives from paycheck to paycheck the only concern is "Can I buy food next week?" and "Can I pay the rent on the 1st?". Wealth preservation and modest inflation is not on the radar. However, it is still hurting the man that earns $12/hr, no matter the modesty of the inflation. Just look around right now. Is the current inflation rate modest? Did everyone get a raise to account for the CPI going up? Will everyone get an 8.5% raise next year? In my opinion decoupling the currency from anyone's "control" is the key idea behind Bitcoin.
  - alphabettsy 5y ago
    It doesn’t de-couple it though. Bitcoin can and is manipulated by “whales” just like any other market. If it becomes a reserve currency governments and the very wealthy will still hold the vast majority and thus maintain control right?