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This is an interesting case but I wonder what the statistics are around this. Computers die just like cables snap. There will absolutely be unpreventable failur

This is an interesting case but I wonder what the statistics are around this. Computers die just like cables snap. There will absolutely be unpreventable failures, but there really seems to be an interesting psychological component to the way we expect computers to work flawlessly where we are better at acknowledging the failures of mechanical components. Obviously the failure mode here was not ideal, so hopefully that can be improved. If a throttle cable was jammed it would be the same outcome and at least for me, I can imagine it would make me feel less uneasy. Maybe it's the consistency of code that makes us expect that if one failure exists, more are likely?

pseudostem 5y ago
No sources, but there were comments here on HN in the past year which pointed out non industrial grade (for the lack of a better word) computers on board a Tesla. My opinion is that with mechanical components it is easier to make a distinction in quality. With computers, we tend to stick to GHz or how many nanometers some tinfoil is.
- wanderer_ 5y ago
  > non industrial grade (for the lack of a better word) computers on board a Tesla. Such as the non-volatile memory chips that began to fail after irresponsible logging practices [0] [0] https://hackaday.com/2021/02/11/tesla-recalls-cars-with-emmc-failures-calls-part-a-wear-item/ https://hackaday.com/2021/02/11/tesla-recalls-cars-with-emmc...
- bee_rider 5y ago
  Not sure which computers you mean, or what you mean by "industrial grade," so possibly I'm off-target, but cars could happily have some less reliable computers, for example in the entertainment center. Even stuff like high-level navigation could be run on the entertainment center level computers -- if google maps crashes, it shouldn't cause a human operated car to crash, and a thoughtfully designed "autopilot" system should mimic that split. No idea if the Tesla autopilot system is thoughtfully designed though.
  - kfajdsl 5y ago
    It seems at least recent versions of the Tesla Model S and X have seperate computers for their infotainment system and autopilot [1]. That wouldn't have helped out the guy from the article, though, I believe he was manually controlling it. If Teslas have their infotainment (running in React Native?) and motor control/drive by wire on the same computer, I'd be shocked. That's awful. [1] https://insideevs.com/news/414323/teslas-computers-different-model-sx-3y/ https://insideevs.com/news/414323/teslas-computers-different...
    - bee_rider 5y ago
      > What happens is that the Model S and the Model X have two physically distinct computer units: one for infotainment and one for Autopilot. The infotainment computer is called MCU, and it is integrated with the central screen. The Autopilot computer is installed above the glove box. I wonder what the architecture there is. The author just says "physically distinct," so it is hard to guess much. One one hand the different "computer units" appear to each contain different compute elements -- at least, I think we're seeing the back of the boards and can see multiple CPU cooler retention brackets, right? On the other hand, they all are talking over a network of some sort, so hypothetically they could end up in a situation where the one device ends up dependent on the other (I agree though that it would be shockingly awful and it seems really unlikely). Even within the Autopilot I guess there must be a mix of safety critical and not so critical elements, right? Autopilot has two tasks -- finding the directions to some address, and not crashing the car. The former is not really safety critical (in the sense that a lost driver can operate the car without crashing it) and is hopefully run on a different computer.
chaosite 5y ago
This is literally what Engineering is, designing the components to spec such that when they fail the failure mode is acceptable. This includes the computers. That said, "throttle stuck at previous speed" is not a horrible failure mode, all things considered. If you were driving safely at a certain speed then you should have some time to react and pull the E-break (push the "Park" button on a Tesla). Slowly losing speed until stopping would be better, but there are much worse failure modes too, such as suddenly braking or accelerating.

pseudostem 5y ago

No sources, but there were comments here on HN in the past year which pointed out non industrial grade (for the lack of a better word) computers on board a Tesla. My opinion is that with mechanical components it is easier to make a distinction in quality. With computers, we tend to stick to GHz or how many nanometers some tinfoil is.

wanderer_ 5y ago
> non industrial grade (for the lack of a better word) computers on board a Tesla. Such as the non-volatile memory chips that began to fail after irresponsible logging practices [0] [0] https://hackaday.com/2021/02/11/tesla-recalls-cars-with-emmc-failures-calls-part-a-wear-item/ https://hackaday.com/2021/02/11/tesla-recalls-cars-with-emmc...
bee_rider 5y ago
Not sure which computers you mean, or what you mean by "industrial grade," so possibly I'm off-target, but cars could happily have some less reliable computers, for example in the entertainment center. Even stuff like high-level navigation could be run on the entertainment center level computers -- if google maps crashes, it shouldn't cause a human operated car to crash, and a thoughtfully designed "autopilot" system should mimic that split. No idea if the Tesla autopilot system is thoughtfully designed though.
- kfajdsl 5y ago
  It seems at least recent versions of the Tesla Model S and X have seperate computers for their infotainment system and autopilot [1]. That wouldn't have helped out the guy from the article, though, I believe he was manually controlling it. If Teslas have their infotainment (running in React Native?) and motor control/drive by wire on the same computer, I'd be shocked. That's awful. [1] https://insideevs.com/news/414323/teslas-computers-different-model-sx-3y/ https://insideevs.com/news/414323/teslas-computers-different...
  - bee_rider 5y ago
    > What happens is that the Model S and the Model X have two physically distinct computer units: one for infotainment and one for Autopilot. The infotainment computer is called MCU, and it is integrated with the central screen. The Autopilot computer is installed above the glove box. I wonder what the architecture there is. The author just says "physically distinct," so it is hard to guess much. One one hand the different "computer units" appear to each contain different compute elements -- at least, I think we're seeing the back of the boards and can see multiple CPU cooler retention brackets, right? On the other hand, they all are talking over a network of some sort, so hypothetically they could end up in a situation where the one device ends up dependent on the other (I agree though that it would be shockingly awful and it seems really unlikely). Even within the Autopilot I guess there must be a mix of safety critical and not so critical elements, right? Autopilot has two tasks -- finding the directions to some address, and not crashing the car. The former is not really safety critical (in the sense that a lost driver can operate the car without crashing it) and is hopefully run on a different computer.

chaosite 5y ago

This is literally what Engineering is, designing the components to spec such that when they fail the failure mode is acceptable. This includes the computers. That said, "throttle stuck at previous speed" is not a horrible failure mode, all things considered. If you were driving safely at a certain speed then you should have some time to react and pull the E-break (push the "Park" button on a Tesla). Slowly losing speed until stopping would be better, but there are much worse failure modes too, such as suddenly braking or accelerating.