4 ms·

Google Meet at least it's very obvious to tell they do this because if you talk while muted, they will show a pop-up saying that you're talking but you're muted

Google Meet at least it's very obvious to tell they do this because if you talk while muted, they will show a pop-up saying that you're talking but you're muted. Whether this functionality is justification for more nefarious data usage remains to be seen.

thaumasiotes 4y ago
I have to cough a lot, so I have a headset with a flip-to-mute mic. As a result, I don't generally use in-software mute effects. :/
- tialaramex 4y ago
  In Google Meet, the UI will change to show that it thinks you have hardware muted the microphone and so "unmuting" the Meet software won't help. I think it's a red ! mark or similar. All my USB headsets have hardware mute.
frutiger 4y ago
Couldn’t this be done by using some ML on the video stream?
- knorker 4y ago
  Probably the user experience would not be as good, though, since it'd be an audio-only feature that only works if you've enabled video.
  - brimble 4y ago
    The solution is obvious: have the camera watch you even when it's "off". :-)
    - rzzzt 4y ago
      That is for the "You are talking, but others can't see your face" notification.
      - kyleplum 4y ago
        "We can see that you are talking. Would you like others in the meeting to see you as well?"
- David 4y ago
  That's way more computationally expensive and only available if the camera is on (and the user's mouth is visible).
  - frutiger 4y ago
    That’s true. I’ve never tried it with the camera off.
- lm28469 4y ago
  - Is device X receiving input vs - Training models, wasting years of CPU cycle world wide, &c. For such a dumb feature... I just don't see the point
systemvoltage 4y ago
Once I was on Teams meeting and someone exclaimed “We can see your screen, systemvoltage!”. Sure as hell, I wasn’t sharing anything. Thankfully I wasn’t browsing HN, but writing code. These things implemented somewhere in the middle of the stack seems dangerous. I much more prefer a slider switch. Preferably made from real atoms and molecules.
- subpixel 4y ago
  Not long ago I dialed into a 100+ person, 3+ hour long quarterly planning type call. It was a video call, but I had to be in the car for part of the time so I dialed in. After sitting through over an hour, including the part I thought was essential to my team, I jumped off the call and proceeded to explain the shit show to my fellow passengers for 15m or so. When I got to my destination and pulled out my phone I discovered _I had never hung up_ - I was on the line the whole time. I had said some things that you should never say about your employer within their earshot and expect to remain in their employ. After some nauseating minutes I realized I had been saved by the auto-mute feature. When a call has over x participants, everyone is muted until they take their mic off of mute. I am much more careful now about these things, bc I don't expect to get that lucky again.
  - ketzo 4y ago
    Holy shit, I cannot imagine the stomach drop when you pulled that phone out. This is one of my biggest anxieties. Sheesh.
  - hu3 4y ago
    I love Discord for some usecases but a while ago I pressed the mute button to talk to my brother sitting next to me and my discord friend made a joke about what I said while muted. I double-checked Discord and the mic icon was displaying as muted but I could still talk to my friend regardless.
  - systemvoltage 4y ago
    Yes, be careful. You were lucky. Also, bloated apps lie to you and UIs are buggy, what you see in the UI may not be the case. I now disabled screensharing in MacOS privacy settings for all apps unless I am explicitly sharing.
gwbas1c 4y ago
Zoom also has a similar popup. It's quite useful, too. > “It turns out, in the vast majority of cases, when you mute yourself, these apps do not give up access to the microphone,” says Fawaz. “And that’s a problem. When you’re muted, people don’t expect these apps to collect data.” I wouldn't assume that's nefarious

thaumasiotes 4y ago

I have to cough a lot, so I have a headset with a flip-to-mute mic. As a result, I don't generally use in-software mute effects. :/

tialaramex 4y ago
In Google Meet, the UI will change to show that it thinks you have hardware muted the microphone and so "unmuting" the Meet software won't help. I think it's a red ! mark or similar. All my USB headsets have hardware mute.

frutiger 4y ago

Couldn’t this be done by using some ML on the video stream?

knorker 4y ago
Probably the user experience would not be as good, though, since it'd be an audio-only feature that only works if you've enabled video.
- brimble 4y ago
  The solution is obvious: have the camera watch you even when it's "off". :-)
  - rzzzt 4y ago
    That is for the "You are talking, but others can't see your face" notification.
    - kyleplum 4y ago
      "We can see that you are talking. Would you like others in the meeting to see you as well?"
David 4y ago
That's way more computationally expensive and only available if the camera is on (and the user's mouth is visible).
- frutiger 4y ago
  That’s true. I’ve never tried it with the camera off.
lm28469 4y ago
- Is device X receiving input vs - Training models, wasting years of CPU cycle world wide, &c. For such a dumb feature... I just don't see the point

systemvoltage 4y ago

Once I was on Teams meeting and someone exclaimed “We can see your screen, systemvoltage!”. Sure as hell, I wasn’t sharing anything. Thankfully I wasn’t browsing HN, but writing code. These things implemented somewhere in the middle of the stack seems dangerous. I much more prefer a slider switch. Preferably made from real atoms and molecules.

subpixel 4y ago
Not long ago I dialed into a 100+ person, 3+ hour long quarterly planning type call. It was a video call, but I had to be in the car for part of the time so I dialed in. After sitting through over an hour, including the part I thought was essential to my team, I jumped off the call and proceeded to explain the shit show to my fellow passengers for 15m or so. When I got to my destination and pulled out my phone I discovered _I had never hung up_ - I was on the line the whole time. I had said some things that you should never say about your employer within their earshot and expect to remain in their employ. After some nauseating minutes I realized I had been saved by the auto-mute feature. When a call has over x participants, everyone is muted until they take their mic off of mute. I am much more careful now about these things, bc I don't expect to get that lucky again.
- ketzo 4y ago
  Holy shit, I cannot imagine the stomach drop when you pulled that phone out. This is one of my biggest anxieties. Sheesh.
- hu3 4y ago
  I love Discord for some usecases but a while ago I pressed the mute button to talk to my brother sitting next to me and my discord friend made a joke about what I said while muted. I double-checked Discord and the mic icon was displaying as muted but I could still talk to my friend regardless.
- systemvoltage 4y ago
  Yes, be careful. You were lucky. Also, bloated apps lie to you and UIs are buggy, what you see in the UI may not be the case. I now disabled screensharing in MacOS privacy settings for all apps unless I am explicitly sharing.

gwbas1c 4y ago

Zoom also has a similar popup. It's quite useful, too. > “It turns out, in the vast majority of cases, when you mute yourself, these apps do not give up access to the microphone,” says Fawaz. “And that’s a problem. When you’re muted, people don’t expect these apps to collect data.” I wouldn't assume that's nefarious