10 ms·

Honestly from the description you give, I wouldn't assign blame but it was probably the right call to break it off. 6 hours arguments that need to happen right

by belval 5y ago

Honestly from the description you give, I wouldn't assign blame but it was probably the right call to break it off. 6 hours arguments that need to happen right now are a pretty big red flag...

RobertRoberts 5y ago
I worked from home for many years (before it was popular) and I had a family too. This kind of things happened to me and my wife a lot, hours of arguing while I should have been working. You can work through it, you just have to care enough. We no longer have arguments longer than maybe 20 minutes now. It can just be personality types and where you are in life. But a valuable person in your life? You work through that stuff to keep them, even if it's hard.
- lotsofpulp 5y ago
  I would start billing my own children if arguments lasted hours.
- AlanYx 5y ago
  You can't always work through emotional dysregulation issues (inability to return to baseline after six hours of argument being one indicator of such issues) by just talking it out. Sometimes you can, sometimes it's associated with something more fundamental like a personality disorder where professional help needs to be involved.
  - RobertRoberts 5y ago
    I have a theory I use that helps me with this, the "million dollar gun to the head" theory. Would either of them stop fighting instantly if there as a gun to their heads or offered a million dollars? If the answer is "yes", then it's entirely within their control to solve the problem. The only people I think that fail this are psychopaths, and I think those are rare.
    - AlanYx 5y ago
      If you don't have experience with people prone to emotional dysregulation, it's hard to appreciate how it works, but you don't need to resort to such an artificial scenario like your gun scenario. People with some personality disorders can be triggered by seemingly little things into anger/rage states for 4-6 hours that cannot be resolved by talking them out, but if someone outside the household (i.e., someone who is not their partner or not their kids) shows up unexpectedly, they can often immediately control themselves. But the underlying dynamic doesn't get resolved, and generally won't be without professional tools that go beyond conventional talk therapy, like DBT.
      - agota 5y ago
        I came to a conclusion that people who genuinely can't control themselves due to extremely low impulse control tend to end up in prison. Those who claim that they "can't control themselves" yet somehow manage to be functional adults are lying - they can control themselves, they just can't be bothered.
      - lazide 5y ago
        Yup. Having been on the receiving end of it - she literally said afterwards she couldn’t stop herself. Luckily, she was just stabbing the counter and not me. My mistake for asking her how she was doing, apparently.
      - warcher 5y ago
        This is something I have been a witness to in my personal life, and you're right-- I don't have the tools to wrap my brain around this. I'm familiar with disabilities. I get that. You're unable to do this thing that other people find easy. But this.... this is a choice. If you can't regulate your emotions, you can't regulate your emotions no matter the context. If you can function just fine at work, but not at home, that's a choice you're making. Or at least, that's how it looks from the outside. I get that people who struggle to control their emotions would push back on that analogy, but I'm pretty accustomed to people creating whatever narrative they need to justify their behavior. Somebody acting badly and then making up a justification is something I deal with nearly every day. It's hard for me to get a better justification than "maybe your 'personality disorder' is just being an asshole" past Occam's razor. Is there something I could be reading about this to get a better picture? I know I'm coming at it from a general place of mental health, so, you know, that's not the best lens, but I also know I'm not crazy for thinking like this. Just maybe missing a puzzle piece.
  - thewebcount 5y ago
    I just want to point out that it's not just personality disorders that can cause this. There are very real physiological problems that can surface this way, too. For example, some people have adrenaline issues where seemingly minor, or even pleasant things (like running into an old friend at the grocery store), cause a much larger than normal spike of adrenaline. If the person it happens to isn't aware of what's going on, they can react the way their body is telling them to (fight, flight, or freeze). Sometimes if they're aware of it, they can have enough sense to take a pause, but it is often very difficult because the biological response your body has is so overwhelming. It's as unpleasant for them as it is for the person who has to deal with their overreaction to the situation.
    - zBard 5y ago
      Wouldn't personality disorders be inseparable from physiological problems ? Is there any particular literature/reference you are basing this on, curious.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
- castlecrasher2 5y ago
  >You can work through it, you just have to care enough. We no longer have arguments longer than maybe 20 minutes now. We went through the same. A few years of me getting my head on straight and not escalating fights so I could effectively communicate "I don't want to fight about this" and either "this isn't a criticism, this is something that's important to me" or "you're right, I'll start doing that" has made our fighting dry up almost entirely.
  - lazide 5y ago
    There are also folks that are suffering from real severe mental health crisises, and will continue to escalate and dysregulate over and over again - to their own and others detriment. Having been on the receiving end of this - don’t keep trying to make it work if it gets to this point. Work on being a grey rock to them (non reactive) until you can get yourself and others to safety. Also don’t tell them you’re leaving until you have a viable plan B that they can’t find. Kids make it much much harder, and unfortunately around 2 yrs old is often when it gets the toughest and this can happen.
- exolymph 5y ago
  Or maybe you and your wife don't funge with every other pair of individuals in the whole world? Some people truly aren't compatible and make each other miserable.
  - RobertRoberts 5y ago
    I think more people give up and quit on compatible people than we care to admit. Getting along is hard for everyone under stressful situations. (combined with our own personal flaws)
em-bee 5y ago
an unresolved argument (if it's a serious one) makes it difficult for me to focus on work. (as a programmer and sysadmin, being distracted can be dangerous) if it happens in the evening i also can't sleep. so either way the day is ruined. the solution then is obviously to learn to resolve arguments in a short time. actually, resolving the argument itself is not even the issue, but knowing that we still love each other is what matters. so what needs to happen right now is to find a way for both of us to calm down, maybe hug and kiss and then get back to work until you have time to discuss the issue later.
- belval 5y ago
  I am very much the same on that part, it's hard to do great work when you are emotionally all over the place.
  - sangnoir 5y ago
    Other people are able to compartmentalize and put it off until later while going about their day. Having one of each in a disagreement is like adding fuel to the fire as both people get angrier that of the other is not accommodating their approach,and it becomes a much bigger thing. "Let's fix this now so I can do work" vs "Let's fix it later, so I can do my work".
- scarby2 5y ago
  > actually, resolving the argument itself is not even the issue, but knowing that we still love each other is what matters. So much this. Having been taking classes and reading up on intentional/effective communication strategies for relationships one of the key aspects is having a way to say "i love you and acknowledge your grievance however i do not have the time, energy or emotional strength to discuss this now" this can be distilled down to a phrase, maybe just "pause" or a gesture followed by some kind of display of affection. It's also critical that the other partner respects it. There's very little that's more damaging and less productive than continuing to argue with someone who has mentally checked out. My ex would yell at me (red flag) until i just couldn't anymore, not listen to any requests for breaks (another red flag) then physically prevent anyone from leaving the room until she was satisfied (huge red flag) - even if you had to go to work.
cycomanic 5y ago
I'm the opposite of the OP, I really hate to not resolve problems straight away. My partner is the opposite she needs to avoid the immediate conflict. I think there is a balance to be had, the issue with just walking away from the discussion is that it feels to the partner like they are being stonewalled. The other thing I noticed is that I needed to get over the attitude that I pay for things so I can have higher expectations. We went to couples therapy and the communication strategies we learned really and while we still have arguments they tend to be much more productive, but it requires work.
willcipriano 5y ago
It wouldn't be a six hour argument if he just said "You are right, I'll clean up after myself".
- lazide 5y ago
  In my experience? It’s never about that, and if there was nothing to criticize, THAT would be criticized. It’s usually about some fundamental disconnect or unmet need by one of the parties, and without concerted honest effort by both to face it, it’s going to explode sooner or later. The problem being, if they were already prone to spending concerted, honest effort in facing and talking about their problems, they would be a lot less likely to be in that place.
  - willcipriano 5y ago
    In my experience it's always about what I'm talking about. My wife often refuses to clean up after herself, I tell her "Please pick up the iced tea bottles you left on the floor" and she goes into a rant about one time 5 years ago when I didn't pick up a something and engages in lots of deflection. Then she says stuff like you said "Your just upset that you have a meeting at work", when really it's I'd like to not pick up after her. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. If your behavior is outside of the social norms (eg. you leave dishes out for others to clean) then admit fault and move on. If they bring something else up maybe you are correct in your thesis but why are you defending yourself when you are being a slob?
    - lazide 5y ago
      Uh, pretty clear her behavior is exactly what I’m referring to, and yours may be too? If you think the behavior you described is just about a couple iced tea bottles, that is… not likely to go well long term in my experience. I hope I’m wrong for you though! And the statement you’re making there seems to have a tone of resentment towards her which, unfortunately, is going to likely be a problem too.
      - deleted 5y ago
makeitdouble 5y ago
> need to happen right now This is usually the result of the argument never happening otherwise. I’ve been on the other end, trying to bring a subject for 10, 20 times. But it’s a big enough issue that when it’s brought up the other party feels they “need more head space”, “not ready now”, “need to get rid of some other stuff first”. This probably means I’m not reading the room well enough, but thing is, the other party doesn’t come back to the discussion table when they’re ready to talk it out. So at some point you come to the conclusion that timing doesn’t really matter, and except if their parents are literally on their dying bed, you’ll have to plow through their circumstances if you ever want that discussion to happen. So we ended up with a 3h hour cry and sob discussion in a parking lot after buying toilet paper in the middle of the night.
- tasuki 5y ago
  I'm of the kind that wants to talk things out, preferably immediately. I had a similar experience: when my partner said she wasn't ready to talk now, I asked her to let me know whenever she's ready to talk it over, yet couple days later it's me bringing up the subject again, to similar effect. I guess some people just like to sweep things under the rug forever...

by belval 5y ago

Honestly from the description you give, I wouldn't assign blame but it was probably the right call to break it off. 6 hours arguments that need to happen right now are a pretty big red flag...

RobertRoberts 5y ago

I worked from home for many years (before it was popular) and I had a family too. This kind of things happened to me and my wife a lot, hours of arguing while I should have been working. You can work through it, you just have to care enough. We no longer have arguments longer than maybe 20 minutes now. It can just be personality types and where you are in life. But a valuable person in your life? You work through that stuff to keep them, even if it's hard.

lotsofpulp 5y ago
I would start billing my own children if arguments lasted hours.
AlanYx 5y ago
You can't always work through emotional dysregulation issues (inability to return to baseline after six hours of argument being one indicator of such issues) by just talking it out. Sometimes you can, sometimes it's associated with something more fundamental like a personality disorder where professional help needs to be involved.
- RobertRoberts 5y ago
  I have a theory I use that helps me with this, the "million dollar gun to the head" theory. Would either of them stop fighting instantly if there as a gun to their heads or offered a million dollars? If the answer is "yes", then it's entirely within their control to solve the problem. The only people I think that fail this are psychopaths, and I think those are rare.
  - AlanYx 5y ago
    If you don't have experience with people prone to emotional dysregulation, it's hard to appreciate how it works, but you don't need to resort to such an artificial scenario like your gun scenario. People with some personality disorders can be triggered by seemingly little things into anger/rage states for 4-6 hours that cannot be resolved by talking them out, but if someone outside the household (i.e., someone who is not their partner or not their kids) shows up unexpectedly, they can often immediately control themselves. But the underlying dynamic doesn't get resolved, and generally won't be without professional tools that go beyond conventional talk therapy, like DBT.
    - agota 5y ago
      I came to a conclusion that people who genuinely can't control themselves due to extremely low impulse control tend to end up in prison. Those who claim that they "can't control themselves" yet somehow manage to be functional adults are lying - they can control themselves, they just can't be bothered.
    - lazide 5y ago
      Yup. Having been on the receiving end of it - she literally said afterwards she couldn’t stop herself. Luckily, she was just stabbing the counter and not me. My mistake for asking her how she was doing, apparently.
    - warcher 5y ago
      This is something I have been a witness to in my personal life, and you're right-- I don't have the tools to wrap my brain around this. I'm familiar with disabilities. I get that. You're unable to do this thing that other people find easy. But this.... this is a choice. If you can't regulate your emotions, you can't regulate your emotions no matter the context. If you can function just fine at work, but not at home, that's a choice you're making. Or at least, that's how it looks from the outside. I get that people who struggle to control their emotions would push back on that analogy, but I'm pretty accustomed to people creating whatever narrative they need to justify their behavior. Somebody acting badly and then making up a justification is something I deal with nearly every day. It's hard for me to get a better justification than "maybe your 'personality disorder' is just being an asshole" past Occam's razor. Is there something I could be reading about this to get a better picture? I know I'm coming at it from a general place of mental health, so, you know, that's not the best lens, but I also know I'm not crazy for thinking like this. Just maybe missing a puzzle piece.
- thewebcount 5y ago
  I just want to point out that it's not just personality disorders that can cause this. There are very real physiological problems that can surface this way, too. For example, some people have adrenaline issues where seemingly minor, or even pleasant things (like running into an old friend at the grocery store), cause a much larger than normal spike of adrenaline. If the person it happens to isn't aware of what's going on, they can react the way their body is telling them to (fight, flight, or freeze). Sometimes if they're aware of it, they can have enough sense to take a pause, but it is often very difficult because the biological response your body has is so overwhelming. It's as unpleasant for them as it is for the person who has to deal with their overreaction to the situation.
  - zBard 5y ago
    Wouldn't personality disorders be inseparable from physiological problems ? Is there any particular literature/reference you are basing this on, curious.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
castlecrasher2 5y ago
>You can work through it, you just have to care enough. We no longer have arguments longer than maybe 20 minutes now. We went through the same. A few years of me getting my head on straight and not escalating fights so I could effectively communicate "I don't want to fight about this" and either "this isn't a criticism, this is something that's important to me" or "you're right, I'll start doing that" has made our fighting dry up almost entirely.
- lazide 5y ago
  There are also folks that are suffering from real severe mental health crisises, and will continue to escalate and dysregulate over and over again - to their own and others detriment. Having been on the receiving end of this - don’t keep trying to make it work if it gets to this point. Work on being a grey rock to them (non reactive) until you can get yourself and others to safety. Also don’t tell them you’re leaving until you have a viable plan B that they can’t find. Kids make it much much harder, and unfortunately around 2 yrs old is often when it gets the toughest and this can happen.
exolymph 5y ago
Or maybe you and your wife don't funge with every other pair of individuals in the whole world? Some people truly aren't compatible and make each other miserable.
- RobertRoberts 5y ago
  I think more people give up and quit on compatible people than we care to admit. Getting along is hard for everyone under stressful situations. (combined with our own personal flaws)

em-bee 5y ago

an unresolved argument (if it's a serious one) makes it difficult for me to focus on work. (as a programmer and sysadmin, being distracted can be dangerous) if it happens in the evening i also can't sleep. so either way the day is ruined. the solution then is obviously to learn to resolve arguments in a short time. actually, resolving the argument itself is not even the issue, but knowing that we still love each other is what matters. so what needs to happen right now is to find a way for both of us to calm down, maybe hug and kiss and then get back to work until you have time to discuss the issue later.

belval 5y ago
I am very much the same on that part, it's hard to do great work when you are emotionally all over the place.
- sangnoir 5y ago
  Other people are able to compartmentalize and put it off until later while going about their day. Having one of each in a disagreement is like adding fuel to the fire as both people get angrier that of the other is not accommodating their approach,and it becomes a much bigger thing. "Let's fix this now so I can do work" vs "Let's fix it later, so I can do my work".
scarby2 5y ago
> actually, resolving the argument itself is not even the issue, but knowing that we still love each other is what matters. So much this. Having been taking classes and reading up on intentional/effective communication strategies for relationships one of the key aspects is having a way to say "i love you and acknowledge your grievance however i do not have the time, energy or emotional strength to discuss this now" this can be distilled down to a phrase, maybe just "pause" or a gesture followed by some kind of display of affection. It's also critical that the other partner respects it. There's very little that's more damaging and less productive than continuing to argue with someone who has mentally checked out. My ex would yell at me (red flag) until i just couldn't anymore, not listen to any requests for breaks (another red flag) then physically prevent anyone from leaving the room until she was satisfied (huge red flag) - even if you had to go to work.

cycomanic 5y ago

I'm the opposite of the OP, I really hate to not resolve problems straight away. My partner is the opposite she needs to avoid the immediate conflict. I think there is a balance to be had, the issue with just walking away from the discussion is that it feels to the partner like they are being stonewalled. The other thing I noticed is that I needed to get over the attitude that I pay for things so I can have higher expectations. We went to couples therapy and the communication strategies we learned really and while we still have arguments they tend to be much more productive, but it requires work.

willcipriano 5y ago

It wouldn't be a six hour argument if he just said "You are right, I'll clean up after myself".

lazide 5y ago
In my experience? It’s never about that, and if there was nothing to criticize, THAT would be criticized. It’s usually about some fundamental disconnect or unmet need by one of the parties, and without concerted honest effort by both to face it, it’s going to explode sooner or later. The problem being, if they were already prone to spending concerted, honest effort in facing and talking about their problems, they would be a lot less likely to be in that place.
- willcipriano 5y ago
  In my experience it's always about what I'm talking about. My wife often refuses to clean up after herself, I tell her "Please pick up the iced tea bottles you left on the floor" and she goes into a rant about one time 5 years ago when I didn't pick up a something and engages in lots of deflection. Then she says stuff like you said "Your just upset that you have a meeting at work", when really it's I'd like to not pick up after her. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. If your behavior is outside of the social norms (eg. you leave dishes out for others to clean) then admit fault and move on. If they bring something else up maybe you are correct in your thesis but why are you defending yourself when you are being a slob?
  - lazide 5y ago
    Uh, pretty clear her behavior is exactly what I’m referring to, and yours may be too? If you think the behavior you described is just about a couple iced tea bottles, that is… not likely to go well long term in my experience. I hope I’m wrong for you though! And the statement you’re making there seems to have a tone of resentment towards her which, unfortunately, is going to likely be a problem too.
    - deleted 5y ago

makeitdouble 5y ago

> need to happen right now This is usually the result of the argument never happening otherwise. I’ve been on the other end, trying to bring a subject for 10, 20 times. But it’s a big enough issue that when it’s brought up the other party feels they “need more head space”, “not ready now”, “need to get rid of some other stuff first”. This probably means I’m not reading the room well enough, but thing is, the other party doesn’t come back to the discussion table when they’re ready to talk it out. So at some point you come to the conclusion that timing doesn’t really matter, and except if their parents are literally on their dying bed, you’ll have to plow through their circumstances if you ever want that discussion to happen. So we ended up with a 3h hour cry and sob discussion in a parking lot after buying toilet paper in the middle of the night.

tasuki 5y ago
I'm of the kind that wants to talk things out, preferably immediately. I had a similar experience: when my partner said she wasn't ready to talk now, I asked her to let me know whenever she's ready to talk it over, yet couple days later it's me bringing up the subject again, to similar effect. I guess some people just like to sweep things under the rug forever...