4 ms·

Depressed people need therapy. Enough with the pills. The science backing up antidepressants or psilocybin is very weak.

emadabdulrahim 5y ago
Do you have any data on the effectiveness of talk therapy for patients with depression? Any data on how long it takes for the patient to experience any noticeable relief?
- philosopher1234 5y ago
  No, sorry. I'm not a scientist, just summarizing the impressions I've gathered from reading folks who are.
  - tomek_ycomb 5y ago
    I believe a proper summarizing might be closer to "people need therapy AND drugs" The strongest results across the board are a combination of therapy and medication. My personal opinion is to vouch for therapy the most, and push hard against the pill narrative. But I think it adds to the shame of pills to not acknowledge the potential role many people have for pills. Now disregarding the "ssris are more effective combined with therapy" i also want to point out that most of the psychedelic studies are also combining therapy. My personal conjecture and perhaps some other peoples would be that drugs can help enable the conditions in which talk therapy is more effective. The classic example is the mdma ptsd therapy trials. Therapists can't apply cognitive therapy techniques if someone's fight or flight kicks in too powerfully. Drugs can help to bring the person to a state where they can get therapy. I've also seen this with friends --> deep depression, ssris helped elevate to the point that therapy was more successful than deep depression would otherwise have allowed.
pmoriarty 5y ago
My own impression (and I've been intensely interested in both therapy and psychedelics for several decades) is that psychedelics in combination with therapy (and sometimes even psychedelics alone) can be much more effective than therapy, antidepressants or their combination. A positive outcome from psychedelic therapy is not guaranteed. Some people don't benefit from it, but many more people benefit from it than other approaches. And when they do benefit, the benefit is often much more pronounced and also typically longer lasting. There's a lot of research on this, particularly on individuals with treatment-resistant depression. Psychedelic therapy is not a panacea.. and nothing that operates on your mind is going to magically fix the circumstances you're in or your relationships with others -- you have to do that yourself. But the depression itself can be helped.

emadabdulrahim 5y ago

Do you have any data on the effectiveness of talk therapy for patients with depression? Any data on how long it takes for the patient to experience any noticeable relief?

philosopher1234 5y ago
No, sorry. I'm not a scientist, just summarizing the impressions I've gathered from reading folks who are.
- tomek_ycomb 5y ago
  I believe a proper summarizing might be closer to "people need therapy AND drugs" The strongest results across the board are a combination of therapy and medication. My personal opinion is to vouch for therapy the most, and push hard against the pill narrative. But I think it adds to the shame of pills to not acknowledge the potential role many people have for pills. Now disregarding the "ssris are more effective combined with therapy" i also want to point out that most of the psychedelic studies are also combining therapy. My personal conjecture and perhaps some other peoples would be that drugs can help enable the conditions in which talk therapy is more effective. The classic example is the mdma ptsd therapy trials. Therapists can't apply cognitive therapy techniques if someone's fight or flight kicks in too powerfully. Drugs can help to bring the person to a state where they can get therapy. I've also seen this with friends --> deep depression, ssris helped elevate to the point that therapy was more successful than deep depression would otherwise have allowed.

pmoriarty 5y ago

My own impression (and I've been intensely interested in both therapy and psychedelics for several decades) is that psychedelics in combination with therapy (and sometimes even psychedelics alone) can be much more effective than therapy, antidepressants or their combination. A positive outcome from psychedelic therapy is not guaranteed. Some people don't benefit from it, but many more people benefit from it than other approaches. And when they do benefit, the benefit is often much more pronounced and also typically longer lasting. There's a lot of research on this, particularly on individuals with treatment-resistant depression. Psychedelic therapy is not a panacea.. and nothing that operates on your mind is going to magically fix the circumstances you're in or your relationships with others -- you have to do that yourself. But the depression itself can be helped.