45 ms·

Did his PhD at Caltech under Christof Koch in computation and neural systems, was a super talented mathematician... and then he gets involved in crypto. I reme

by pen2l 5y ago

Did his PhD at Caltech under Christof Koch in computation and neural systems, was a super talented mathematician... and then he gets involved in crypto. I remember conversations with friends only a few years ago in which we would lament how young brilliant minds were eventually going on to work on adtech, and we would sigh and hope that the tide would turn. Boy, we were not prepared for this tide. Anyway, the NYSD release gives some interesting details: (https://www.justice.gov/usao-sdny/pr/manhattan-us-attorney-announces-arrest-united-states-citizen-assisting-north-korea https://www.justice.gov/usao-sdny/pr/manhattan-us-attorney-a...) GRIFFITH identified several DPRK Cryptocurrency Conference attendees who appeared to work for the North Korean government, and who, during his presentation, asked GRIFFITH specific questions about blockchain and cryptocurrency and prompted discussions on technical aspects of those technologies. After the DPRK Cryptocurrency Conference, GRIFFITH began formulating plans to facilitate the exchange of cryptocurrency between the DPRK and South Korea, despite knowing that assisting with such an exchange would violate sanctions against the DPRK. GRIFFITH also encouraged other U.S. citizens to travel to North Korea, including to attend the same DPRK Cryptocurrency Conference the following year. Smart enough as he was, I'm sure he knew of the terrible human rights track record NK had. That he chose to start helping the NK government evade sanctions, I am not able to muster a lot of sympathy for the guy at this point.

tmpz22 5y ago
All that education and they still didn’t have the common sense to maybe not go to North Korea
- radicaldreamer 5y ago
  I think there's a kind of naïveté at work here. He cooperated when questioned after returning from North Korea, only to have his own words used against him when he was charged. He didn't take sanctions violations seriously enough and when he asked the State Dept for permission beforehand to go, they said no, and he went anyway.
  - egberts1 5y ago
    Ergo, not all brilliant mathematicians have common sense.
  - starwind 5y ago
    Robert Jackson, Supreme Court justice and lead prosecutor at Nuremberg: "any lawyer worth his salt will tell the suspect in no uncertain terms to make no statement to police under any circumstances"
    - Maursault 5y ago
      > Robert Jackson, Supreme Court justice While that qualifier is unnecessary (we know who Robert H. Jackson is), and while being a Supreme Court Justice is certainly impressive, Jackson is even more impressive for applying his ideologies and simultaneously writing about them and publishing while serving as Attorney General. The quote you pull is a good one, but I prefer what I think is a finger wag to all prosecutors, who actually hold the most powerful positions in our government (arguably more powerful than Judges, Senators or Presidents): Nothing better can come out of this meeting of law enforcement officers than a rededication to the spirit of fair play and decency that should animate the federal prosecutor. Your positions are of such independence and importance that while you are being diligent, strict, and vigorous in law enforcement you can also afford to be just. Although the government technically loses its case, it has really won if justice has been done. Often enough, a federal prosecutor is seduced by their own ambition for the sake of their record (perversely seen as more important than justice), that their case should be won at all cost, and the process seems to be to unfairly pile on charges to exaggerate the actual alleged crime and induce outrage, and economically disenfranchise the suspect or defendant (often employing civil forfeiture for this effect) so that the defendant can not afford to mount a viable defense, in order to induce a plea deal, which often leads to innocent people accruing criminal records, serving time and subsequently being less able to earn a decent living paying less taxes, and not living as long as they might. I may have gone around the OT bend, but it seems like the way prosecutors operate in general in serving their own ambitions, against Jackson's recommendations, hurts America's bottom line by synthetically reducing the amount of taxes that can be collected and diminishes or disables that individual's ability to contribute to society. The story of Aaron Swartz comes to mind as a perfect example of this.
trasz 5y ago
s1artibartfast 5y ago
Sounds like he simply didn't support the sanctions and doesn't believe in blind obedience to US law.
- beaconstudios 5y ago
  There are sanctions that are worthy of criticism - the decades-long sanction on Cuba, for instance, even though I disagree with their regime - but North Korea is pretty transparently a despotic regime that should be opposed.
  - s1artibartfast 5y ago
    I have yet to hear a convincing argument how sanctions do anything aside from impoverish the 25 million people living in North Korea. They don't bring about regime change, They don't impose hardship on the despots, and they don't take away nuclear capability from North Korea.
    - beaconstudios 5y ago
      They limit trade with NK, unfortunately that probably does contribute to impoverishing the people, alongside NK's own practices doing so, but as I understand it the point of sanctions is to stop material aid (trade, gifts, tech sharing etc) that would be used to empower the NK, which includes their military and nuclear capabilities. I don't know if the US itself allows food or medical aid to be sent, but I do know that NK receive a lot of food aid. Honestly I don't know how to feel about sanctions more generally, whether they help or harm the citizenry - but I'm not convinced that enabling the NK government to transact with crypto would lead to improvements in the regular people's lives, compared with them having greater access to military equipment.
    - BobbyJo 5y ago
      > They don't bring about regime change, They don't impose hardship on the despots, and they don't take away nuclear capability from North Korea. They haven't yet brought about regime change, They haven't yet imposed hardship on the despots, and they haven't yet taken away nuclear capability from North Korea. The point is, the world needs regime change, in order to be safer (dictators with Nukes are a very dangerous thing to have on the one and only human populated planet). Without the pressure, change is far less likely.
jokethrowaway 5y ago
The sad thing is that smart people are going to crypto because there is easy money to be made and not because they support decentralisation and fighting the government
- ericd 5y ago
  Doubt it, it's likely more because it's interesting, and there're interesting things to be done with it.
spicymaki 5y ago
Indeed. +1 to this. The most talented among us could be building a better world, yet they are wasting time in rent seeking schemes.
woah 5y ago
This guy literally traveled to a repressive totalitarian regime to perform services for them with the intention of helping them evade sanctions. The fact that crypto was involved is incidental.
tradertef 5y ago
US has terrible human rights track record as well (Guantanamo, Abu Gharib), .. so as other countries.
- timmytokyo 5y ago
  I don't understand this response. Are you arguing that it's therefore justifiable to do what Griffith did? If not, please try to justify it without resorting to whataboutism.
  - tradertef 5y ago
    No, it is not justifying what he did. According to US law, he is clearly at fault. However, pointing out NK atrocities to have him morally wrong is not appropriate. With that logic, we should be also approving Iran or NK punishment of their citizens when they work with US.
    - BobbyJo 5y ago
      > However, pointing out NK atrocities to have him morally wrong is not appropriate. With that logic, we should be also approving Iran or NK punishment of their citizens when they work with US. Tht logic only holds if you believe the governments of the US, NK, and Iran are all equally just and legitimate. If you believe that, I have some crypto that might interest you...

by pen2l 5y ago

tmpz22 5y ago

All that education and they still didn’t have the common sense to maybe not go to North Korea

radicaldreamer 5y ago
I think there's a kind of naïveté at work here. He cooperated when questioned after returning from North Korea, only to have his own words used against him when he was charged. He didn't take sanctions violations seriously enough and when he asked the State Dept for permission beforehand to go, they said no, and he went anyway.
- egberts1 5y ago
  Ergo, not all brilliant mathematicians have common sense.
- starwind 5y ago
  Robert Jackson, Supreme Court justice and lead prosecutor at Nuremberg: "any lawyer worth his salt will tell the suspect in no uncertain terms to make no statement to police under any circumstances"
  - Maursault 5y ago
    > Robert Jackson, Supreme Court justice While that qualifier is unnecessary (we know who Robert H. Jackson is), and while being a Supreme Court Justice is certainly impressive, Jackson is even more impressive for applying his ideologies and simultaneously writing about them and publishing while serving as Attorney General. The quote you pull is a good one, but I prefer what I think is a finger wag to all prosecutors, who actually hold the most powerful positions in our government (arguably more powerful than Judges, Senators or Presidents): Nothing better can come out of this meeting of law enforcement officers than a rededication to the spirit of fair play and decency that should animate the federal prosecutor. Your positions are of such independence and importance that while you are being diligent, strict, and vigorous in law enforcement you can also afford to be just. Although the government technically loses its case, it has really won if justice has been done. Often enough, a federal prosecutor is seduced by their own ambition for the sake of their record (perversely seen as more important than justice), that their case should be won at all cost, and the process seems to be to unfairly pile on charges to exaggerate the actual alleged crime and induce outrage, and economically disenfranchise the suspect or defendant (often employing civil forfeiture for this effect) so that the defendant can not afford to mount a viable defense, in order to induce a plea deal, which often leads to innocent people accruing criminal records, serving time and subsequently being less able to earn a decent living paying less taxes, and not living as long as they might. I may have gone around the OT bend, but it seems like the way prosecutors operate in general in serving their own ambitions, against Jackson's recommendations, hurts America's bottom line by synthetically reducing the amount of taxes that can be collected and diminishes or disables that individual's ability to contribute to society. The story of Aaron Swartz comes to mind as a perfect example of this.

trasz 5y ago

s1artibartfast 5y ago

Sounds like he simply didn't support the sanctions and doesn't believe in blind obedience to US law.

beaconstudios 5y ago
There are sanctions that are worthy of criticism - the decades-long sanction on Cuba, for instance, even though I disagree with their regime - but North Korea is pretty transparently a despotic regime that should be opposed.
- s1artibartfast 5y ago
  I have yet to hear a convincing argument how sanctions do anything aside from impoverish the 25 million people living in North Korea. They don't bring about regime change, They don't impose hardship on the despots, and they don't take away nuclear capability from North Korea.
  - beaconstudios 5y ago
    They limit trade with NK, unfortunately that probably does contribute to impoverishing the people, alongside NK's own practices doing so, but as I understand it the point of sanctions is to stop material aid (trade, gifts, tech sharing etc) that would be used to empower the NK, which includes their military and nuclear capabilities. I don't know if the US itself allows food or medical aid to be sent, but I do know that NK receive a lot of food aid. Honestly I don't know how to feel about sanctions more generally, whether they help or harm the citizenry - but I'm not convinced that enabling the NK government to transact with crypto would lead to improvements in the regular people's lives, compared with them having greater access to military equipment.
  - BobbyJo 5y ago
    > They don't bring about regime change, They don't impose hardship on the despots, and they don't take away nuclear capability from North Korea. They haven't yet brought about regime change, They haven't yet imposed hardship on the despots, and they haven't yet taken away nuclear capability from North Korea. The point is, the world needs regime change, in order to be safer (dictators with Nukes are a very dangerous thing to have on the one and only human populated planet). Without the pressure, change is far less likely.

jokethrowaway 5y ago

The sad thing is that smart people are going to crypto because there is easy money to be made and not because they support decentralisation and fighting the government

ericd 5y ago
Doubt it, it's likely more because it's interesting, and there're interesting things to be done with it.

spicymaki 5y ago

Indeed. +1 to this. The most talented among us could be building a better world, yet they are wasting time in rent seeking schemes.

woah 5y ago

This guy literally traveled to a repressive totalitarian regime to perform services for them with the intention of helping them evade sanctions. The fact that crypto was involved is incidental.

tradertef 5y ago

US has terrible human rights track record as well (Guantanamo, Abu Gharib), .. so as other countries.

timmytokyo 5y ago
I don't understand this response. Are you arguing that it's therefore justifiable to do what Griffith did? If not, please try to justify it without resorting to whataboutism.
- tradertef 5y ago
  No, it is not justifying what he did. According to US law, he is clearly at fault. However, pointing out NK atrocities to have him morally wrong is not appropriate. With that logic, we should be also approving Iran or NK punishment of their citizens when they work with US.
  - BobbyJo 5y ago
    > However, pointing out NK atrocities to have him morally wrong is not appropriate. With that logic, we should be also approving Iran or NK punishment of their citizens when they work with US. Tht logic only holds if you believe the governments of the US, NK, and Iran are all equally just and legitimate. If you believe that, I have some crypto that might interest you...