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Just from working with a few psychiatrists for the past month, none seemed to be enthused about trialing or studying psychedelics for depressed patients. I thin

Just from working with a few psychiatrists for the past month, none seemed to be enthused about trialing or studying psychedelics for depressed patients. I think we will need a lot more case studies and a comprehensive list of harms and adverse reactions before convincing them. Worth mentioning this treatment also requires more work on the therapist/psychiatric side. Something that doesn’t need a lot of therapy sessions is ECT which is very effective for treatment resistant depression. Lastly, psychedelics used to be researched for military purposes and mind control, wondering if this is still a risk factor for patients?

lampshades 5y ago
I think the largest risk factor is to the wallets of psychiatrists.
- philosopher1234 5y ago
  Or perhaps its just another round of hurting people being taken for a ride by massive pharma companies, and psychiatrists aren't thrilled about it.
  - lampshades 5y ago
    You can grow a mushroom in your closet.
    - TaylorAlexander 5y ago
      It’s fun too!
    - philosopher1234 5y ago
      Sure, you can, and feel free to try it. But thats not the reason for psilocybin's sudden popularity with pharma sponsored studies.
- siloed 5y ago
  The parent comment draws an important difference between the use of psychedelic therapy and, say, ECT. I support this research but "Big Psychiatry just wants the cash!" is a reddit-level of nuance we can do without please.
clsec 5y ago
Both my psychiatrist and therapist are open to the idea. In fact, I'm pretty sure everyone who works in the clinic I go to are open to it. This is in San Francisco though, so YMMV. And since it's not yet legal in CA, I've thought about joining a UCSF study (last I checked they had 4 ongoing). Haven't acted on it yet though.
pmoriarty 5y ago
"Just from working with a few psychiatrists for the past month, none seemed to be enthused about trialing or studying psychedelics for depressed patients." How old are these psychiatrists? Many psychiatrists grew up during the days of prohibition and paranoia about psychedelics, and their training exclusively focused on treating depression with non-psychedelic antidepressant drugs.. not to mention all the kickbacks that psychiatrists received from the pharma companies peddling those antidepressants. So I'm not at all surprised to hear skepticism from some of the more conservative ones. That said, there's been an overwhelming amount of research showing the effectiveness of psychedelics on treatment-resistant depression -- effectiveness that dwarfs the effect of antidepressants. So many other psychiatrists and therapists are much more open to trying them than the psychiatrists you met with. "psychedelics used to be researched for military purposes and mind control, wondering if this is still a risk factor for patients?" They were not found to be effective at "mind-control" and the "research" (if it could be called that) was abandoned. All such abuse resulted in was traumatized, broken people. Really horrific stuff. See the history for MKUltra[1] for details. It's still a concern that you might be unlucky enough to work with an abusive psychiatrist or therapist.. so you should really be vetting the people you work with very carefully. That said, there are training, certification and licensing procedures and organizations that are there to help prevent abuse and deal with it if/when it happens. For example, see: [2] Also, at least with MDMA therapy the standard is to have two therapists with you at all times, to decrease the chance that one of them will abuse you. Also, at least in the studies, it has been common to videotape the sessions, so there is a record of what happened, which should decrease the risk of people completely getting away with abuse. But, yeah, it's still a risk and I don't think any therapy will be completely risk free... especially not psychedelic therapy, where the patient is so incredibly vulnerable and suggestible during the session. That's why, again, it's very important that you vet the therapist you're working with to best of your ability before you trust them with your mind. [1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_MKUltra https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_MKUltra [2] - https://maps.org/safety/ https://maps.org/safety/

lampshades 5y ago

I think the largest risk factor is to the wallets of psychiatrists.

philosopher1234 5y ago
Or perhaps its just another round of hurting people being taken for a ride by massive pharma companies, and psychiatrists aren't thrilled about it.
- lampshades 5y ago
  You can grow a mushroom in your closet.
  - TaylorAlexander 5y ago
    It’s fun too!
  - philosopher1234 5y ago
    Sure, you can, and feel free to try it. But thats not the reason for psilocybin's sudden popularity with pharma sponsored studies.
siloed 5y ago
The parent comment draws an important difference between the use of psychedelic therapy and, say, ECT. I support this research but "Big Psychiatry just wants the cash!" is a reddit-level of nuance we can do without please.

clsec 5y ago

Both my psychiatrist and therapist are open to the idea. In fact, I'm pretty sure everyone who works in the clinic I go to are open to it. This is in San Francisco though, so YMMV. And since it's not yet legal in CA, I've thought about joining a UCSF study (last I checked they had 4 ongoing). Haven't acted on it yet though.

pmoriarty 5y ago

"Just from working with a few psychiatrists for the past month, none seemed to be enthused about trialing or studying psychedelics for depressed patients." How old are these psychiatrists? Many psychiatrists grew up during the days of prohibition and paranoia about psychedelics, and their training exclusively focused on treating depression with non-psychedelic antidepressant drugs.. not to mention all the kickbacks that psychiatrists received from the pharma companies peddling those antidepressants. So I'm not at all surprised to hear skepticism from some of the more conservative ones. That said, there's been an overwhelming amount of research showing the effectiveness of psychedelics on treatment-resistant depression -- effectiveness that dwarfs the effect of antidepressants. So many other psychiatrists and therapists are much more open to trying them than the psychiatrists you met with. "psychedelics used to be researched for military purposes and mind control, wondering if this is still a risk factor for patients?" They were not found to be effective at "mind-control" and the "research" (if it could be called that) was abandoned. All such abuse resulted in was traumatized, broken people. Really horrific stuff. See the history for MKUltra[1] for details. It's still a concern that you might be unlucky enough to work with an abusive psychiatrist or therapist.. so you should really be vetting the people you work with very carefully. That said, there are training, certification and licensing procedures and organizations that are there to help prevent abuse and deal with it if/when it happens. For example, see: [2] Also, at least with MDMA therapy the standard is to have two therapists with you at all times, to decrease the chance that one of them will abuse you. Also, at least in the studies, it has been common to videotape the sessions, so there is a record of what happened, which should decrease the risk of people completely getting away with abuse. But, yeah, it's still a risk and I don't think any therapy will be completely risk free... especially not psychedelic therapy, where the patient is so incredibly vulnerable and suggestible during the session. That's why, again, it's very important that you vet the therapist you're working with to best of your ability before you trust them with your mind. [1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_MKUltra https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_MKUltra [2] - https://maps.org/safety/ https://maps.org/safety/