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If this couple went to a marriage counselor, the counselor is not going to say "You're going to lose your marriage because you continue to leave dishes by the s

If this couple went to a marriage counselor, the counselor is not going to say "You're going to lose your marriage because you continue to leave dishes by the sink". Instead, (s)he will say "You're going to lose your marriage because of poor communication - she can't communicate what is bothering her, and he doesn't have the communication skills to make it easy for her to communicate it." If you've read pretty much any book on communications (not limited to relationships), they'll have an example similar to this. And they never suggest "compromise" as a solution (at least not until you break through the communication problem). This is literally a "textbook" communication problem.

watwut 5y ago
I understood the article as saying that she was communicating her issues, but he considered them minor, nagging and unimportant difference of opinion. Therefore, he never treated them seriously, whether by actually changing or by actually arguing back. Basically, he dismissed it instead of taking it as issue. Here is quote from the article: "Hundreds, maybe thousands of times, my wife tried to communicate that something was wrong."
- BeetleB 5y ago
  > I understood the article as saying that she was communicating her issues She wasn't. She was at best hinting - again, something pretty much every communications book says not to do. > "Hundreds, maybe thousands of times, my wife tried to communicate that something was wrong." He doesn't go into details, but it's usually one of two things: 1. Nagging over what seems to be minor issues, and he is supposed to realize that there are deeper issues underlying. 2. Saying explicitly that something was wrong, but not saying what. In both cases, she is lacking the communication skills to say what is wrong, and he is lacking the communication skills to make the path easier for her to say it. He says this: > The reason my marriage fell apart seems absurd when I describe it: My wife left me because sometimes I leave dishes by the sink. The question is, how does she describe it to her friends? I doubt she says "I left my husband because he sometimes leaves dishes by the sink." And did she articulate that to him before it was too late?
  - watwut 5y ago
    It sounds like you make up the thing about hinting. This article does not talk about her hinting and him not getting hint. And in author other blog post he elaborates that further about her pretty clear complains - childcare, chores split and similar. > Nagging over what seems to be minor issues, and he is supposed to realize that there are deeper issues underlying. The deeper issue is that he dismisses her complains as unimportant nagging. That is not her failure to communicate, it is his failure to listen. > The question is, how does she describe it to her friends? I doubt she says "I left my husband because he sometimes leaves dishes by the sink." And did she articulate that to him before it was too late? Yes she did, but he called it nagging and ignored it. I have no idea what she says to her friends. We have only his self reflection to go on. Possibly she says something like "it did not worked out".
    - BeetleB 5y ago
      I think at this stage we're stuck with information that's not clearly provided, and only he can address them. However: > Hundreds, maybe thousands of times, my wife tried to communicate that something was wrong. That something hurt. But that doesn’t make sense, I thought. I’m not trying to hurt her; therefore, she shouldn’t feel hurt. "Feeling hurt" is vague. Feeling hurt is different from being upset that he dismisses her complaints as unimportant nagging. Saying that she does not think he respects her as a result of his dismissals and that it is causing angst is much better. It's not clear from his essay if she ever said something like this. She likely didn't, because: > What I know for sure is that I had never connected putting a dish in the dishwasher with earning my wife’s respect. Had she said it, there would be no connection for him to make. > Yes she did, but he called it nagging and ignored it. This is not at all clear from the article. He's quite vague about the specifics of what she said.

watwut 5y ago

I understood the article as saying that she was communicating her issues, but he considered them minor, nagging and unimportant difference of opinion. Therefore, he never treated them seriously, whether by actually changing or by actually arguing back. Basically, he dismissed it instead of taking it as issue. Here is quote from the article: "Hundreds, maybe thousands of times, my wife tried to communicate that something was wrong."

BeetleB 5y ago
> I understood the article as saying that she was communicating her issues She wasn't. She was at best hinting - again, something pretty much every communications book says not to do. > "Hundreds, maybe thousands of times, my wife tried to communicate that something was wrong." He doesn't go into details, but it's usually one of two things: 1. Nagging over what seems to be minor issues, and he is supposed to realize that there are deeper issues underlying. 2. Saying explicitly that something was wrong, but not saying what. In both cases, she is lacking the communication skills to say what is wrong, and he is lacking the communication skills to make the path easier for her to say it. He says this: > The reason my marriage fell apart seems absurd when I describe it: My wife left me because sometimes I leave dishes by the sink. The question is, how does she describe it to her friends? I doubt she says "I left my husband because he sometimes leaves dishes by the sink." And did she articulate that to him before it was too late?
- watwut 5y ago
  It sounds like you make up the thing about hinting. This article does not talk about her hinting and him not getting hint. And in author other blog post he elaborates that further about her pretty clear complains - childcare, chores split and similar. > Nagging over what seems to be minor issues, and he is supposed to realize that there are deeper issues underlying. The deeper issue is that he dismisses her complains as unimportant nagging. That is not her failure to communicate, it is his failure to listen. > The question is, how does she describe it to her friends? I doubt she says "I left my husband because he sometimes leaves dishes by the sink." And did she articulate that to him before it was too late? Yes she did, but he called it nagging and ignored it. I have no idea what she says to her friends. We have only his self reflection to go on. Possibly she says something like "it did not worked out".
  - BeetleB 5y ago
    I think at this stage we're stuck with information that's not clearly provided, and only he can address them. However: > Hundreds, maybe thousands of times, my wife tried to communicate that something was wrong. That something hurt. But that doesn’t make sense, I thought. I’m not trying to hurt her; therefore, she shouldn’t feel hurt. "Feeling hurt" is vague. Feeling hurt is different from being upset that he dismisses her complaints as unimportant nagging. Saying that she does not think he respects her as a result of his dismissals and that it is causing angst is much better. It's not clear from his essay if she ever said something like this. She likely didn't, because: > What I know for sure is that I had never connected putting a dish in the dishwasher with earning my wife’s respect. Had she said it, there would be no connection for him to make. > Yes she did, but he called it nagging and ignored it. This is not at all clear from the article. He's quite vague about the specifics of what she said.