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The youtube motorcycle channel Fort Nine makes a pretty good argument that the risks of ebikes are similar to those of motorcycles, and the riders typically hav

The youtube motorcycle channel Fort Nine makes a pretty good argument that the risks of ebikes are similar to those of motorcycles, and the riders typically have less protective gear. https://youtu.be/wM8Xli2KTzI https://youtu.be/wM8Xli2KTzI

Stevvo 5y ago
Depending on the situation and speeds, I can even see situations where a motorcycle may be safer; you can accelerate out of many dangerous spots where on a an e-bike you just wouldn't have the speed to do so.
Delk 5y ago
That makes sense if e-bike speeds are as high as those of motorcycles in urban traffic. The video narrator mentions reaching a top speed of ~60 (km/h?) on a commute, which would be similar to a motor vehicle and much faster than what you'd reach on a bicycle. Top speeds going from ~30 to ~60 would make it an entirely different game. At least in some countries in Europe, e-bikes are limited to much lower speeds. Where I live, e-bikes must stop providing power at 25 km/h. If they don't, they're legally considered motorized vehicles and require a driver's license, are not allowed to be ridden on bicycle paths, etc. I can imagine there may still be a higher rate of accidents on e-bikes, as the article says, but the comparison to motorcycles probably doesn't make as much sense in countries where e-bike speeds are much slower.
- porknubbins 5y ago
  I did not know that. 25kph is indeed very slow as road bikes regularly go well above those speeds just being peddled. When I lived in NYC it was a mess- all kinds of custom ebikes electric mopeds and delivery drivers blasting around on the sidewalks endangering pedestrians. But the city would kill the food delivery business if it banned them.
  - mburee 5y ago
    Yes, but the vast majority of commuters ride around 20km/h or even slower, as it seems to be a lot of elderly people around my place.
  - Delk 5y ago
    Yeah, e-bikes seem to be a rather different deal in different countries in practice. The way the legislation sees e-bikes here is that the motor should be for assistance and comfort, and to enable somewhat longer commutes etc., not for being able to go at speeds of motorized traffic. (You can also go faster than 25 on an e-bike, just like you could on any bike, but it has to be on human power.) 25 km/h is IMO a reasonable maximum powered speed in urban bicycle traffic. It's a speed you can reasonably reach on a traditional urban bike by just pedalling, so it's not wildly above the speeds of other bikes in the same traffic, but it's high enough to be useful in a city environment. I can imagine that somewhat higher powered speeds would be nice to have when riding in car traffic, or on roads or paths outside of urban areas where you might ride much faster than that on road bikes. As a compromise it's fairly reasonable from my city-dwelling point of view, though. The legislation here probably wanted to prevent exactly the kind of a mess you'd get from having what are effectively motorized vehicles running on sidewalks and other paths that are explicitly not meant for motorized vehicles.
tmm84 5y ago
I agree with this video on so many points. The fact that most people who haven't had a ride on a bicycle since they were in middle school as well as the fact it goes at speeds most people aren't fit enough to hit for long stretches without it being a downhill are important. Speed + inexperience = danger. Add to that the urban environment of motorists and pedestrians just seeing ebikes (and bicycles in general) as toys/recreational they do not give them enough caution when seen on the road. Even in places like the NL I am pretty sure most people think that those on ebikes may be regular bicycles that can only go so fast and underestimate the speed they are traveling at. Another thing to think about is how instantly an ebike can accelerate compared to a regular bicycle. If the cyclists legs are an indicator of speed/effort the ebike hides this (throttle or assisted) and makes it harder to even gauge the possible speed of them by eye alone.

Stevvo 5y ago

Depending on the situation and speeds, I can even see situations where a motorcycle may be safer; you can accelerate out of many dangerous spots where on a an e-bike you just wouldn't have the speed to do so.

Delk 5y ago

That makes sense if e-bike speeds are as high as those of motorcycles in urban traffic. The video narrator mentions reaching a top speed of ~60 (km/h?) on a commute, which would be similar to a motor vehicle and much faster than what you'd reach on a bicycle. Top speeds going from ~30 to ~60 would make it an entirely different game. At least in some countries in Europe, e-bikes are limited to much lower speeds. Where I live, e-bikes must stop providing power at 25 km/h. If they don't, they're legally considered motorized vehicles and require a driver's license, are not allowed to be ridden on bicycle paths, etc. I can imagine there may still be a higher rate of accidents on e-bikes, as the article says, but the comparison to motorcycles probably doesn't make as much sense in countries where e-bike speeds are much slower.

porknubbins 5y ago
I did not know that. 25kph is indeed very slow as road bikes regularly go well above those speeds just being peddled. When I lived in NYC it was a mess- all kinds of custom ebikes electric mopeds and delivery drivers blasting around on the sidewalks endangering pedestrians. But the city would kill the food delivery business if it banned them.
- mburee 5y ago
  Yes, but the vast majority of commuters ride around 20km/h or even slower, as it seems to be a lot of elderly people around my place.
- Delk 5y ago
  Yeah, e-bikes seem to be a rather different deal in different countries in practice. The way the legislation sees e-bikes here is that the motor should be for assistance and comfort, and to enable somewhat longer commutes etc., not for being able to go at speeds of motorized traffic. (You can also go faster than 25 on an e-bike, just like you could on any bike, but it has to be on human power.) 25 km/h is IMO a reasonable maximum powered speed in urban bicycle traffic. It's a speed you can reasonably reach on a traditional urban bike by just pedalling, so it's not wildly above the speeds of other bikes in the same traffic, but it's high enough to be useful in a city environment. I can imagine that somewhat higher powered speeds would be nice to have when riding in car traffic, or on roads or paths outside of urban areas where you might ride much faster than that on road bikes. As a compromise it's fairly reasonable from my city-dwelling point of view, though. The legislation here probably wanted to prevent exactly the kind of a mess you'd get from having what are effectively motorized vehicles running on sidewalks and other paths that are explicitly not meant for motorized vehicles.

tmm84 5y ago

I agree with this video on so many points. The fact that most people who haven't had a ride on a bicycle since they were in middle school as well as the fact it goes at speeds most people aren't fit enough to hit for long stretches without it being a downhill are important. Speed + inexperience = danger. Add to that the urban environment of motorists and pedestrians just seeing ebikes (and bicycles in general) as toys/recreational they do not give them enough caution when seen on the road. Even in places like the NL I am pretty sure most people think that those on ebikes may be regular bicycles that can only go so fast and underestimate the speed they are traveling at. Another thing to think about is how instantly an ebike can accelerate compared to a regular bicycle. If the cyclists legs are an indicator of speed/effort the ebike hides this (throttle or assisted) and makes it harder to even gauge the possible speed of them by eye alone.