3 ms·

China is repeatedly saying they won't invade Taiwan, and they hadn't invaded anyone in decades anyway and have non-aggresiveness explicitly written in their con

by trasz 5y ago

China is repeatedly saying they won't invade Taiwan, and they hadn't invaded anyone in decades anyway and have non-aggresiveness explicitly written in their constitution; the majority of Taiwanese is fine with the current arrangement too, and yet US seems to be quite successful at manufacturing public consent for war. EDIT: Russia, which also claimed they "won't invade", has a history of invading, even recently. They also had a reason to invade: situation in Russia was (somehow) getting worse and worse. China is the exact opposite - they hadn't invaded anyone in a long time, and their economy is booming.

yetihehe 5y ago
Russia repeatedly said it will not invade Ukraine as they were preparing to invade.
Freak_NL 5y ago
The current arrangement is being a de facto sovereign democratic state. A status quo that is very much not something China prefers in the long term. At some point in the future Taiwan is either acknowledged as a sovereign nation (with embassies and no foreign claims on their territory) or it will get assimilated as the 'lost province' China considers it to be. If China didn't want to invade/assimilate/peacefully-reunite-with-a-gun-against-your-head Taiwan, it wouldn't object to it presenting itself as an independent nation, and it wouldn't have its 'One China' policy which means that other countries have to choose between them and Taiwan. If China didn't have designs on taking over Taiwan, it wouldn't impose sanctions on Lithuania for opening a Taiwanese Representative Office. Thinking that China with its Nine Dash Line (as close to an invasion as you can get) does not have designs on Taiwan is naive.
tacker2000 5y ago
That could all be true, but as we have seen, things can change very fast. The West has to now deal with the fact that they were complacent and passive towards the Russian threat for years. Therefore it makes sense to take pro active measures with regards to China now as well.
- trasz 5y ago
  That's true, and to be honest while I believe China will do the right thing, deep inside I am a little bit worried that it might not. Still, so far they are doing fine. This includes complying with sanctions, even in areas they don't technically have to - they are just doing it discreetly. Also I don't get your reasoning about pro-active measures: if anything, the West cooperating with China could convince them to ditch Russia. Antagonising them will have the opposite effect. Another thing I've just noticed: >If China didn't want to invade/assimilate/peacefully-reunite-with-a-gun-against-your-head Taiwan You hadn't included the most obvious option, which is a properly peaceful integration. You are up front assuming that China is yet another warmongering empire, like USA or Russia, as opposed to eg EU. This is despite existing integration efforts (Taiwan is quite close to China) and obvious economic realities - wars hurt economy; Russian economy was failing even before the war, and American economy is looking good on paper, but the quality of life is lower than it used to be half a century ago; China, on the other hand, is booming. To me, that's another example of US propaganda being widely accepted as truth.
philliphaydon 5y ago
China repeatedly threatens Taiwan on an almost daily basis. China has no less than 18 border disputes. They invaded Tibet.
- trasz 5y ago
  >China repeatedly threatens Taiwan on an almost daily basis. [citation needed] As for Tibet - they did, 70 years ago. And they changed it from a theocratic, medieval shithole with economy based on slavery, into a proper place to live. For comparison, US invaded Afghanistan a decade ago and failed to improve it in any noticeable way. Not to mention that Chinese didn't drone random weddings in Tibet.
  - philliphaydon 5y ago
    > As for Tibet - they did, 70 years ago. And they changed it from a theocratic, medieval shithole with economy based on slavery, into a proper place to live. What by destorying monastaries, killing people. Please. Tibet is not better off under China. > [citation needed] You living under a rock? China threw its toys out of the cot all week due to delegates flying to Taiwan. Taiwan is not part of China, never has been, and has no right to threaten anyone for having any sort of relationship with Taiwan. Edit: I see, not living under a rock, just hate America and believe China propaganda.
    - trasz 5y ago
      >What by destorying monastaries, killing people. Please. Tibet is not better off under China. Imagine how your response would look like when applied to American South - that the Civil War was a terrible idea, because it destroyed a couple of churches and killed people, and the South isn't any better now without slavery. But given that you're repeating a trivially disproved lie (https://www.statista.com/statistics/1094118/china-per-capita-gross-domestic-product-gdp-of-tibet/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/1094118/china-per-capita...), I don't see the point in discussing this anymore. >Taiwan is not part of China Ah, I see you also know Taiwan better than its citizens. FWIW, I don't hate America - despite its dysfunctional democracy and other drawbacks. What I hate is waging wars to distract its citizens from their own problems. And I'm kind of hoping USA can be the good guys this time, against Russia. Btw, it's interesting that to you, simply not hating China implies hating USA. I guess that's yet another example of indoctrination.

by trasz 5y ago

yetihehe 5y ago

Russia repeatedly said it will not invade Ukraine as they were preparing to invade.

Freak_NL 5y ago

The current arrangement is being a de facto sovereign democratic state. A status quo that is very much not something China prefers in the long term. At some point in the future Taiwan is either acknowledged as a sovereign nation (with embassies and no foreign claims on their territory) or it will get assimilated as the 'lost province' China considers it to be. If China didn't want to invade/assimilate/peacefully-reunite-with-a-gun-against-your-head Taiwan, it wouldn't object to it presenting itself as an independent nation, and it wouldn't have its 'One China' policy which means that other countries have to choose between them and Taiwan. If China didn't have designs on taking over Taiwan, it wouldn't impose sanctions on Lithuania for opening a Taiwanese Representative Office. Thinking that China with its Nine Dash Line (as close to an invasion as you can get) does not have designs on Taiwan is naive.

tacker2000 5y ago

That could all be true, but as we have seen, things can change very fast. The West has to now deal with the fact that they were complacent and passive towards the Russian threat for years. Therefore it makes sense to take pro active measures with regards to China now as well.

trasz 5y ago
That's true, and to be honest while I believe China will do the right thing, deep inside I am a little bit worried that it might not. Still, so far they are doing fine. This includes complying with sanctions, even in areas they don't technically have to - they are just doing it discreetly. Also I don't get your reasoning about pro-active measures: if anything, the West cooperating with China could convince them to ditch Russia. Antagonising them will have the opposite effect. Another thing I've just noticed: >If China didn't want to invade/assimilate/peacefully-reunite-with-a-gun-against-your-head Taiwan You hadn't included the most obvious option, which is a properly peaceful integration. You are up front assuming that China is yet another warmongering empire, like USA or Russia, as opposed to eg EU. This is despite existing integration efforts (Taiwan is quite close to China) and obvious economic realities - wars hurt economy; Russian economy was failing even before the war, and American economy is looking good on paper, but the quality of life is lower than it used to be half a century ago; China, on the other hand, is booming. To me, that's another example of US propaganda being widely accepted as truth.

philliphaydon 5y ago

China repeatedly threatens Taiwan on an almost daily basis. China has no less than 18 border disputes. They invaded Tibet.

trasz 5y ago
>China repeatedly threatens Taiwan on an almost daily basis. [citation needed] As for Tibet - they did, 70 years ago. And they changed it from a theocratic, medieval shithole with economy based on slavery, into a proper place to live. For comparison, US invaded Afghanistan a decade ago and failed to improve it in any noticeable way. Not to mention that Chinese didn't drone random weddings in Tibet.
- philliphaydon 5y ago
  > As for Tibet - they did, 70 years ago. And they changed it from a theocratic, medieval shithole with economy based on slavery, into a proper place to live. What by destorying monastaries, killing people. Please. Tibet is not better off under China. > [citation needed] You living under a rock? China threw its toys out of the cot all week due to delegates flying to Taiwan. Taiwan is not part of China, never has been, and has no right to threaten anyone for having any sort of relationship with Taiwan. Edit: I see, not living under a rock, just hate America and believe China propaganda.
  - trasz 5y ago
    >What by destorying monastaries, killing people. Please. Tibet is not better off under China. Imagine how your response would look like when applied to American South - that the Civil War was a terrible idea, because it destroyed a couple of churches and killed people, and the South isn't any better now without slavery. But given that you're repeating a trivially disproved lie (https://www.statista.com/statistics/1094118/china-per-capita-gross-domestic-product-gdp-of-tibet/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/1094118/china-per-capita...), I don't see the point in discussing this anymore. >Taiwan is not part of China Ah, I see you also know Taiwan better than its citizens. FWIW, I don't hate America - despite its dysfunctional democracy and other drawbacks. What I hate is waging wars to distract its citizens from their own problems. And I'm kind of hoping USA can be the good guys this time, against Russia. Btw, it's interesting that to you, simply not hating China implies hating USA. I guess that's yet another example of indoctrination.