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Man, there's a baby in that bathwater Wiki RFC are throwing out. There are projects that are fair, were fairly distributed, that work and are secure, that are

Man, there's a baby in that bathwater Wiki RFC are throwing out. There are projects that are fair, were fairly distributed, that work and are secure, that are feeless and instant, all while being truly decentralized. Everything that Bitcoin promised to be and wasn't. So, when the scams die out the best projects willl still exist. It doesn't matter how much of their own face Wikipedia cuts off, but it's sad to see them do it.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
zyuiop 5y ago
Yes but Wikipedia only accepted BTC, BCC and ETH anyway. Maybe one day if what you say becomes true they will go back and accept these fancy new currencies.
psychoslave 5y ago
Or maybe you don’t want to accept water from providers that are well known to have a very negative impact on environment in the first place. Your baby deserve that you don’t tacitly turn a blind eye to well known side impact, all the more when there no lack of clean water provider.
SideburnsOfDoom 5y ago
> I think crypto currencies are for the most part a scam > Man, there's a baby in that bathwater It takes a special kind of thinking to insist "yeah, crypto currencies are about 98% scammy, but there must be good in the last 2%!, I've just seen 98 scams in a row, this _increases_ the odds that the next 2 that I see are legit!" Well, * no it does not increase the odds, this is desperate wishful thinking clinging to a fixed belief * what if there is no baby, only bathwater? And where does the burden of proof that there is a baby or not, lie?
- denkmoon 5y ago
  Crypto can overall be a scam (or not, pick your poison), but if it's helping wikimedia get funding then that 'baby' is worth saving. I think we can all agree that wikimedia is a net positive in the world.
  - SideburnsOfDoom 5y ago
    > I think we can all agree that wikimedia is a net positive in the world. Should Wikimedia take funds from the Kremlin, North Korea and Drug cartels, or should they have limits on ethical sources of funding? You don't have to answer what you would do, but it is 100% legitimate for them to choose to have clear, written guidelines on what funds they ethically agree to accept.
    - gnomewascool 5y ago
      I don't think that accepting cryptocurrencies is quite equivalent to accepting funds from the Kremlin, North Korea and Drug cartels. It's more equivalent to accepting donations in roubles, in North Korean won or in the form of legal drug caches. It's not about the source, but the means of the payment. I can imagine people accepting money from dubious sources, but not via dubious means and vice-versa.
      - SideburnsOfDoom 5y ago
        > I don't think that accepting cryptocurrencies is quite equivalent to accepting funds from the Kremlin I didn't say it was the same, just that they can choose to draw a line somewhere. > It's more equivalent to accepting donations in roubles And many are in fact drawing the line at that. > I can imagine people accepting money from dubious sources, but not via dubious means and vice-versa Agreed, though I think that once you start looking into ethical funding "why not both" is going to be a common position.
  - j16sdiz 5y ago
    Wikimedia Foundation have hundreds of million of dollars. Nothing need saving See https://www.dailydot.com/debug/wikipedia-endownemnt-fundraising/ https://www.dailydot.com/debug/wikipedia-endownemnt-fundrais...
- mandmandam 5y ago
  There were people who called the internet a fad, while the dot com silliness was at it's peak. Many of them, if you recall. Look up block lattice tech - it's powerful stuff.
  - SideburnsOfDoom 5y ago
    > But the fact that some geniuses were laughed at does not imply that all who are laughed at are geniuses. They laughed at Columbus, they laughed at Fulton, they laughed at the Wright Brothers. But they also laughed at Bozo the Clown. - Carl Sagan
    - mandmandam 5y ago
      Block lattice tech is not Bozo the clown, but I won't stop you believing whatever you like.
      - bb88 5y ago
        All ponzi schemes start with smart people. The more complicated it is, the more "magical" it becomes for those that have been swayed. It's a religion for some, a cargo cult for others, and a grift machine for the criminals. But scratch the surface and peer underneath, and you can see what it truly is. We don't laugh at the people who started the ponzi schemes. We don't laugh at the people that lost their money and learned their lesson. No, we laugh at the people who despite the clearest of clear headed reasoning still insist on wrapping their logic tighter than a pretzel. We may not all do it publically -- even though there are those that do -- but we do laugh, and are amazed how people got sucked into a tech cult.
        mandmandam 5y ago
        What the fuck are you talking about a cult for.. Nano is a real and functioning product, that works. There's no religion or sacrifice or anything like that, you can literally download an app or go to a website and see it work for yourself. Access to the world's knowledge and people defend their ignorance like this, smh.
iso1631 5y ago
> There are projects that are fair, were fairly distributed, that work and are secure, that are feeless and instant, all while being truly decentralized Name two?
- preisschild 5y ago
  Monero and Monero related projects, like Haveno. Its probably one of the most used cryptocurrencies for normal transactions, as most darkweb marketplaces use it.
  - SideburnsOfDoom 5y ago
    > normal transactions ... darkweb marketplaces For some abnormal definition of "normal", ok.
    - mhitza 5y ago
      Obviously he/she meant normal in terms of exchange for goods and services.
  - ben-schaaf 5y ago
    The highest transaction fee in the last 100 transactions has been 4c. That's not a lot but very far from "feeless". Monero mines blocks every 2 minutes; hardly "instant". A full confirmation takes ~20 minutes. Source: https://www.monero.how/how-long-do-monero-transactions-take https://www.monero.how/how-long-do-monero-transactions-take
    - superkuh 5y ago
      As opposed to a normal credit card transaction which takes days.
      - replygirl 5y ago
        But not in a practical sense for the user. You don't have to wait 20 minutes for your authorization to clear so you can walk out of Dunkin with your iced coffee
tromp 5y ago
Nothing in crypto is fairly distributed. Not when the majority of supply is distributed in just a few years, or, much worse yet, all at launch in the hands of the founders plus whoever they decided to handout tokens to by whatever publicly unverifiable way.
- mandmandam 5y ago
  > Nothing in crypto is fairly distributed. Are we speaking relative to fiat here? .... Lol. Besides, there were many attempts at fair distributions, so you're simply wrong there. My favorite, Nano, distributed small amounts to people who solved captchas between 2015 and 2017.
  - tromp 5y ago
    Yes, relative to fiat, since crypto can at best limit the unfairness to that already present in fiat. But so far crypto has created wealth inequality which is way worse than that in fiat. Yes, there have been attempts at fair distribution, but to re-iterate my point above, they would need to spread distribution over a long timespan (gold has been distributed over millenia).

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

zyuiop 5y ago

Yes but Wikipedia only accepted BTC, BCC and ETH anyway. Maybe one day if what you say becomes true they will go back and accept these fancy new currencies.

psychoslave 5y ago

Or maybe you don’t want to accept water from providers that are well known to have a very negative impact on environment in the first place. Your baby deserve that you don’t tacitly turn a blind eye to well known side impact, all the more when there no lack of clean water provider.

SideburnsOfDoom 5y ago

> I think crypto currencies are for the most part a scam > Man, there's a baby in that bathwater It takes a special kind of thinking to insist "yeah, crypto currencies are about 98% scammy, but there must be good in the last 2%!, I've just seen 98 scams in a row, this _increases_ the odds that the next 2 that I see are legit!" Well, * no it does not increase the odds, this is desperate wishful thinking clinging to a fixed belief * what if there is no baby, only bathwater? And where does the burden of proof that there is a baby or not, lie?

denkmoon 5y ago
Crypto can overall be a scam (or not, pick your poison), but if it's helping wikimedia get funding then that 'baby' is worth saving. I think we can all agree that wikimedia is a net positive in the world.
- SideburnsOfDoom 5y ago
  > I think we can all agree that wikimedia is a net positive in the world. Should Wikimedia take funds from the Kremlin, North Korea and Drug cartels, or should they have limits on ethical sources of funding? You don't have to answer what you would do, but it is 100% legitimate for them to choose to have clear, written guidelines on what funds they ethically agree to accept.
  - gnomewascool 5y ago
    I don't think that accepting cryptocurrencies is quite equivalent to accepting funds from the Kremlin, North Korea and Drug cartels. It's more equivalent to accepting donations in roubles, in North Korean won or in the form of legal drug caches. It's not about the source, but the means of the payment. I can imagine people accepting money from dubious sources, but not via dubious means and vice-versa.
    - SideburnsOfDoom 5y ago
      > I don't think that accepting cryptocurrencies is quite equivalent to accepting funds from the Kremlin I didn't say it was the same, just that they can choose to draw a line somewhere. > It's more equivalent to accepting donations in roubles And many are in fact drawing the line at that. > I can imagine people accepting money from dubious sources, but not via dubious means and vice-versa Agreed, though I think that once you start looking into ethical funding "why not both" is going to be a common position.
- j16sdiz 5y ago
  Wikimedia Foundation have hundreds of million of dollars. Nothing need saving See https://www.dailydot.com/debug/wikipedia-endownemnt-fundraising/ https://www.dailydot.com/debug/wikipedia-endownemnt-fundrais...
mandmandam 5y ago
There were people who called the internet a fad, while the dot com silliness was at it's peak. Many of them, if you recall. Look up block lattice tech - it's powerful stuff.
- SideburnsOfDoom 5y ago
  > But the fact that some geniuses were laughed at does not imply that all who are laughed at are geniuses. They laughed at Columbus, they laughed at Fulton, they laughed at the Wright Brothers. But they also laughed at Bozo the Clown. - Carl Sagan
  - mandmandam 5y ago
    Block lattice tech is not Bozo the clown, but I won't stop you believing whatever you like.
    - bb88 5y ago
      All ponzi schemes start with smart people. The more complicated it is, the more "magical" it becomes for those that have been swayed. It's a religion for some, a cargo cult for others, and a grift machine for the criminals. But scratch the surface and peer underneath, and you can see what it truly is. We don't laugh at the people who started the ponzi schemes. We don't laugh at the people that lost their money and learned their lesson. No, we laugh at the people who despite the clearest of clear headed reasoning still insist on wrapping their logic tighter than a pretzel. We may not all do it publically -- even though there are those that do -- but we do laugh, and are amazed how people got sucked into a tech cult.
      - mandmandam 5y ago
        What the fuck are you talking about a cult for.. Nano is a real and functioning product, that works. There's no religion or sacrifice or anything like that, you can literally download an app or go to a website and see it work for yourself. Access to the world's knowledge and people defend their ignorance like this, smh.

iso1631 5y ago

> There are projects that are fair, were fairly distributed, that work and are secure, that are feeless and instant, all while being truly decentralized Name two?

preisschild 5y ago
Monero and Monero related projects, like Haveno. Its probably one of the most used cryptocurrencies for normal transactions, as most darkweb marketplaces use it.
- SideburnsOfDoom 5y ago
  > normal transactions ... darkweb marketplaces For some abnormal definition of "normal", ok.
  - mhitza 5y ago
    Obviously he/she meant normal in terms of exchange for goods and services.
- ben-schaaf 5y ago
  The highest transaction fee in the last 100 transactions has been 4c. That's not a lot but very far from "feeless". Monero mines blocks every 2 minutes; hardly "instant". A full confirmation takes ~20 minutes. Source: https://www.monero.how/how-long-do-monero-transactions-take https://www.monero.how/how-long-do-monero-transactions-take
  - superkuh 5y ago
    As opposed to a normal credit card transaction which takes days.
    - replygirl 5y ago
      But not in a practical sense for the user. You don't have to wait 20 minutes for your authorization to clear so you can walk out of Dunkin with your iced coffee

tromp 5y ago

Nothing in crypto is fairly distributed. Not when the majority of supply is distributed in just a few years, or, much worse yet, all at launch in the hands of the founders plus whoever they decided to handout tokens to by whatever publicly unverifiable way.

mandmandam 5y ago
> Nothing in crypto is fairly distributed. Are we speaking relative to fiat here? .... Lol. Besides, there were many attempts at fair distributions, so you're simply wrong there. My favorite, Nano, distributed small amounts to people who solved captchas between 2015 and 2017.
- tromp 5y ago
  Yes, relative to fiat, since crypto can at best limit the unfairness to that already present in fiat. But so far crypto has created wealth inequality which is way worse than that in fiat. Yes, there have been attempts at fair distribution, but to re-iterate my point above, they would need to spread distribution over a long timespan (gold has been distributed over millenia).