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> and I replied to that reply, concluding from it that you had no substantive material disagreements. If you're unsatisfied with this conclusion, please reply w
by mistermann 5y ago
> and I replied to that reply, concluding from it that you had no substantive material disagreements. If you're unsatisfied with this conclusion, please reply with, for each disagreement, a quote of the claim, what you believe to be wrong about that claim, and your evidence for your assertion that the claim is wrong, and I'll evaluate your evidence to see whether it convincingly supports your doubts.
My initial grievance is here:
>> (someone) The jump from "bioresearch lab" which to bioweapons. Making it sound as if there was something to "admit" in Ukraine having same labs as everyone has. Then you try to confuse it with bioweapons, anthrax attacks in America and completely irrelevant treaties about bioweapons.
> (me) Who is it that's actually doing the confusing here? It's certainly possible that Greenwald is dog-whistling "bioresearch lab" into "bioweapons", but is he actually doing that, and to a large degree (mostly, etc)?
Here one human is accusing another human (or several), whom he doesn't know, of speaking deliberately deceivingly, making ~invalid associations between things, etc - a not abnormal interpretation of this might be something like "this guy doesn't know what he's talking about, he's trying to tell a tall tale, he might even be a conspiracy theorist".
At the very least, there's little acknowledgement I see about the complexities and uncertainty involved. This is but one of my overall complaints about culture war arguments, people play so fast and loose with the truth. If there's a post about computing on HN, attention to detail and emphasis on correctness is bountiful and uncontroversial. But in a culture war conversation, I proclaim that the inverse is true - and, I also think this abstract phenomenon is a big deal in the big scheme of things.
> Indeed, and, this is extremely important: isn't it possible that you only perceive yourself to be in disagreement with what the original poster said, but in reality, you are in total agreement, and have no complaints or criticisms whatsoever? Furthermore, isn't it possible that you only _perceived_ yourself asking the questions you think you asked, and in reality, you did not ask them? Is this a possibility?
Of course, why not.
But you brought up solipsism earlier:
>> Just take it from an outside observer, you could stand a little introspection to apply some of the solipsistic philosophical musings to yourself.
Perhaps you cannot (or will not) think in these terms without falling into a state of solipsism (or impotency due to indecision, another common complaint), but it's certainly not necessary. It is possible to address these ideas as they are, and take them seriously (as opposed to representing that they are silly, woo woo, bad faith, whatever). Perhaps it is not possible in the mainstream, in 2022, but it is possible.
- ImPostingOnHN 5y ago>Here one human is accusing another human... And one can presume you disagree with them. The evidence supporting their position is convincing, you may now present your evidence to the contrary, and I'll determine whose position between the two of you is more tenable given the evidence. You see, raising questions does not add to any position in particular -- if you have questions, feel free to find the answers, and hopefully they will be ones which make your case more convincing than the case you are arguing against. >Perhaps you cannot... I think it is a bit primitive to make assumptions about what I can or cannot do. Perhaps I address these ideas better than you can comprehend, and you just _PERCEIVE_ it to be biting satire that cuts any hypothetical similarly-structured dissembling to the bone
- mistermann 5y ago> And one can presume you disagree with them. One can presume whatever one wants. Whether one's presumption is correct is another matter. > The evidence supporting their position is convincing, you may now present your evidence to the contrary, and I'll determine whose position between the two of you is more tenable given the evidence. Can you clarify in some detail what position / point of contention you have in mind (just so we're on the same page)? > You see, raising questions does not add to any position in particular... I'm not trying to add to one position or the other, I have made this clear several times. You may not believe me, but that is my claim - let's mark it as a discrete difference of opinion and add it to The List. > ...if you have questions, feel free to find the answers, and hopefully they will be ones which make your case more convincing than the case you are arguing against. I've asked several of you above, I was hoping the answers would come from you! But alas.... > I think it is a bit primitive to make assumptions about what I can or cannot do. "Perhaps" denotes a possibility - it does not required the formation of a belief. Now if you wer to say I might be engaging in a little provocative rhetoric, well now that would be a different matter. :) > Perhaps I address these ideas better than you can comprehend, and you just _PERCEIVE_ it to be biting satire that cuts any hypothetical similarly-structured dissembling to the bone Perhaps you are right. Perhaps you are not. Perhaps there is a complex, mysterious, paradoxical blend among all of us. I wonder what is true!