5 ms·

Union protected programmers made me decide against pursuing a career doing tech for the Illinois EPA. It was impossible to get people who couldn't actually writ

by emidln 4y ago

Union protected programmers made me decide against pursuing a career doing tech for the Illinois EPA. It was impossible to get people who couldn't actually write software out of the way.

mc32 4y ago
Kind of an aside: Some time in the past I had a mildly critical system in a remote office go down. A technician would have to simply replace a part. However, because it required a Union guy to go in there to remove a screw first, it had to wait over the weekend --meaning the company now had to take modest losses over the weekend. The guy couldn't sneak in a screw driver as that could potentially end up costing the company more money. This is where unions earn some of their great reputation among stiffs.
- cool_dude85 4y ago
  A union shop where no 30-year vet wanted to get a 4-hour minimum OT to drive out and unscrew a screw? Or the company didn't want to pay OT for it? I'll leave it to the reader to decide which is more likely.
  - mc32 4y ago
    The alternative is anyone who knows how to use a screwdriver could do it in 30-seconds. Talk about waste of resources, fuel, etc., etc. Oh, Oh, Oh! I know, if they let this one time slip HERE in THIS INSTANCE is where the SLIPPERY SLOPE applies, but, obviously no where else, especially in politics.
    - cool_dude85 4y ago
      Apparently, that's not what the contract says. It says just certain job titles can do that work. So it sounds like thr alternative is to pay the OT, which is at the discretion of management.
      - mc32 4y ago
        Ah, job titles... Awesome! Sorry, not my department --I could do it, but I'm not allowed to do it (shrug!) That attitude pervades the public sector an infuriates the people they are supposedly serving.
  - wutbrodo 4y ago
    Obviously both are true, by definition. The ridiculousness of the situation is not about the choices made by the technician and the company, but the fact that the guy that was already there was prohibited from using a screwdriver.
- alistairSH 4y ago
  On the flip side, the employer signed the same agreement as the union/employees. If the company valued weekend up-time, they could have negotiated a higher weekend rate to get a union guy in to fix the problem. The company prioritized low labor costs over uptime, so they're at least 50% to blame here.
- monkeybutton 4y ago
  Reminds me of a teacher I know in a small town. Their school lost their sole librarian and the library was closed. The teacher volunteered to run the library so it could stay open. Union says it's not allowed, library stays closed.
  - kazinator 4y ago
    If the librarian was paid, the union's position makes a certain amount of sense. Also, the library is open during school hours, so does the teacher not teach during that time? The school has replaced the lost librarian but is effectively short a teacher now.
    - cool_dude85 4y ago
      >If the librarian was paid, the union's position makes a certain amount of sense. And who makes the hiring and firing decisions at this library anyway? The union is to blame for management not hiring a replacement?
    - mc32 4y ago
      Screw it! Let's outlaw volunteerism, it obviously undercuts the labor market and that is not allowed. Volunteers are anti-labor capitalists disguised as goody two shoes serving the community.
      - deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
    - monkeybutton 4y ago
      The position was a paid one. I suppose the offer to keep it open by volunteering would have been worked around their class schedule and be at a reduced level of service compared to before. Still, it would have been open.
- fatnoah 4y ago
  In my first job after college, I shared a cubicle with another worker. For whatever reasons, our desks were next to each other, rather than spaced out. I wanted to rotate my desk 90 degrees and had mentioned this to my manager. In a near panic, he asked if I'd moved anything. I hadn't moved anything, so he told me the proper procedure to move the desk. I put in the request and about 3 weeks later, two people came to move the desk. I'd already unplugged any wiring, so one guy simply picked it up and rotated it. At that point, I found out my network cable (this is in the days before WiFi) for my PC was too short to reach the new desk location. I had to put in another request for wiring, and had to wait a week and a half for someone to come with a longer cable. During that time, I sat on the floor, with my monitor sitting on my chair. While installing the new cable, he asked if I'd unplugged the previous cable before the desk move. When I told him yes, he told me not to worry and that he wouldn't note that, but that I shouldn't do it again. While I totally understand work rules that exist to ensure that workers aren't being made to perform duties that they're not contracted for AND to prevent companies from simply doing end-runs around them, when things reach this level of absurdity, it really sours things. Of course, the nature of "contract" is that common sense is hard to dictate and it does open the slippery slope. "I was just moving the desk in my cube" becomes "I was just moving the desk to the cube next door" to "I was just moving it on the same floor" etc.
  - mc32 4y ago
    Ha! I recall something similar some time ago at one of the then big valley companies. There was a big procedure around moving equipment and one could not do it oneself --it required a ticket and then a day or so later some guys would come over and move things that I could have done myself with one of those rubbermaid restaurant service carts.
    - fatnoah 4y ago
      Ironically, my previous job was an internship at a big valley company, who's former HQ is now occupied by one of the biggest valley companies. There, I needed to ship a bunch of equipment to another office. It needed to be there in 3 weeks, but the soonest the shipping department could pick it up was 4 weeks for some reason. However, there was an unspoken agreement w/the folks there that anything that made it to the shipping area would be shipped w/no questions asked as long as it "just appeared" there. So, over the course of a few nights, I stayed late and moved the equipment to the dock, labeled it appropriately, and everything made it to the destination on time.

by emidln 4y ago

Union protected programmers made me decide against pursuing a career doing tech for the Illinois EPA. It was impossible to get people who couldn't actually write software out of the way.

mc32 4y ago

Kind of an aside: Some time in the past I had a mildly critical system in a remote office go down. A technician would have to simply replace a part. However, because it required a Union guy to go in there to remove a screw first, it had to wait over the weekend --meaning the company now had to take modest losses over the weekend. The guy couldn't sneak in a screw driver as that could potentially end up costing the company more money. This is where unions earn some of their great reputation among stiffs.

cool_dude85 4y ago
A union shop where no 30-year vet wanted to get a 4-hour minimum OT to drive out and unscrew a screw? Or the company didn't want to pay OT for it? I'll leave it to the reader to decide which is more likely.
- mc32 4y ago
  The alternative is anyone who knows how to use a screwdriver could do it in 30-seconds. Talk about waste of resources, fuel, etc., etc. Oh, Oh, Oh! I know, if they let this one time slip HERE in THIS INSTANCE is where the SLIPPERY SLOPE applies, but, obviously no where else, especially in politics.
  - cool_dude85 4y ago
    Apparently, that's not what the contract says. It says just certain job titles can do that work. So it sounds like thr alternative is to pay the OT, which is at the discretion of management.
    - mc32 4y ago
      Ah, job titles... Awesome! Sorry, not my department --I could do it, but I'm not allowed to do it (shrug!) That attitude pervades the public sector an infuriates the people they are supposedly serving.
- wutbrodo 4y ago
  Obviously both are true, by definition. The ridiculousness of the situation is not about the choices made by the technician and the company, but the fact that the guy that was already there was prohibited from using a screwdriver.
alistairSH 4y ago
On the flip side, the employer signed the same agreement as the union/employees. If the company valued weekend up-time, they could have negotiated a higher weekend rate to get a union guy in to fix the problem. The company prioritized low labor costs over uptime, so they're at least 50% to blame here.
monkeybutton 4y ago
Reminds me of a teacher I know in a small town. Their school lost their sole librarian and the library was closed. The teacher volunteered to run the library so it could stay open. Union says it's not allowed, library stays closed.
- kazinator 4y ago
  If the librarian was paid, the union's position makes a certain amount of sense. Also, the library is open during school hours, so does the teacher not teach during that time? The school has replaced the lost librarian but is effectively short a teacher now.
  - cool_dude85 4y ago
    >If the librarian was paid, the union's position makes a certain amount of sense. And who makes the hiring and firing decisions at this library anyway? The union is to blame for management not hiring a replacement?
  - mc32 4y ago
    Screw it! Let's outlaw volunteerism, it obviously undercuts the labor market and that is not allowed. Volunteers are anti-labor capitalists disguised as goody two shoes serving the community.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
  - monkeybutton 4y ago
    The position was a paid one. I suppose the offer to keep it open by volunteering would have been worked around their class schedule and be at a reduced level of service compared to before. Still, it would have been open.
fatnoah 4y ago
In my first job after college, I shared a cubicle with another worker. For whatever reasons, our desks were next to each other, rather than spaced out. I wanted to rotate my desk 90 degrees and had mentioned this to my manager. In a near panic, he asked if I'd moved anything. I hadn't moved anything, so he told me the proper procedure to move the desk. I put in the request and about 3 weeks later, two people came to move the desk. I'd already unplugged any wiring, so one guy simply picked it up and rotated it. At that point, I found out my network cable (this is in the days before WiFi) for my PC was too short to reach the new desk location. I had to put in another request for wiring, and had to wait a week and a half for someone to come with a longer cable. During that time, I sat on the floor, with my monitor sitting on my chair. While installing the new cable, he asked if I'd unplugged the previous cable before the desk move. When I told him yes, he told me not to worry and that he wouldn't note that, but that I shouldn't do it again. While I totally understand work rules that exist to ensure that workers aren't being made to perform duties that they're not contracted for AND to prevent companies from simply doing end-runs around them, when things reach this level of absurdity, it really sours things. Of course, the nature of "contract" is that common sense is hard to dictate and it does open the slippery slope. "I was just moving the desk in my cube" becomes "I was just moving the desk to the cube next door" to "I was just moving it on the same floor" etc.
- mc32 4y ago
  Ha! I recall something similar some time ago at one of the then big valley companies. There was a big procedure around moving equipment and one could not do it oneself --it required a ticket and then a day or so later some guys would come over and move things that I could have done myself with one of those rubbermaid restaurant service carts.
  - fatnoah 4y ago
    Ironically, my previous job was an internship at a big valley company, who's former HQ is now occupied by one of the biggest valley companies. There, I needed to ship a bunch of equipment to another office. It needed to be there in 3 weeks, but the soonest the shipping department could pick it up was 4 weeks for some reason. However, there was an unspoken agreement w/the folks there that anything that made it to the shipping area would be shipped w/no questions asked as long as it "just appeared" there. So, over the course of a few nights, I stayed late and moved the equipment to the dock, labeled it appropriately, and everything made it to the destination on time.