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Which is also why I think using facts to convince others is a Sisyphean endeavor. It is far more rational to learn rhetoric when you have to argue. Learn to wie

Which is also why I think using facts to convince others is a Sisyphean endeavor. It is far more rational to learn rhetoric when you have to argue. Learn to wield fallacies like a weapon. Of course, this relates back to good-faith, bad-faith engagement. Wielding rhetoric like this constantly deters people from engaging in good-faith, so you also have to develop a heuristic to determine whether or not the individual challenging your assertions is worth engaging in good-faith in the first place.

freedomben 5y ago
I've found that 100/100 people just get offended and/or pissed and retreat to their amygdala if you point out a fallacy in their logic. It certainly doesn't help that many people pointing out logical fallacies are in fact wrong (and fallacious) themselves (the "you're using a slippery slope fallacy" for example is fallaciously used all over the place). I'm becoming increasingly convinced that good faith engagement is essentially impossible. The only reason I engage at all anymore is for the third party that might be an honest seeker who may stumble upon the thread at some point in the future.
- SinParadise 5y ago
  >I've found that 100/100 people just get offended and/or pissed and retreat to their amygdala if you point out a fallacy in their logic. And I am sure I've been guilty of this before, many many times. Being challenged is not a comfortable position to be in. I have since learned to weaken my position to give myself and others some leeway when one of us is wrong. >I'm becoming increasingly convinced that good faith engagement is essentially impossible. It is certainly getting more difficult. I think it is still useful to engage with individuals in your chosen social circle honestly and in good-faith, otherwise why are they in your circle in the first place?

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Which is also why I think using facts to convince others is a Sisyphean endeavor. It is far more rational to learn rhetoric when you have to argue. Learn to wie

by SinParadise 5y ago

freedomben 5y ago
I've found that 100/100 people just get offended and/or pissed and retreat to their amygdala if you point out a fallacy in their logic. It certainly doesn't help that many people pointing out logical fallacies are in fact wrong (and fallacious) themselves (the "you're using a slippery slope fallacy" for example is fallaciously used all over the place). I'm becoming increasingly convinced that good faith engagement is essentially impossible. The only reason I engage at all anymore is for the third party that might be an honest seeker who may stumble upon the thread at some point in the future.
- SinParadise 5y ago
  >I've found that 100/100 people just get offended and/or pissed and retreat to their amygdala if you point out a fallacy in their logic. And I am sure I've been guilty of this before, many many times. Being challenged is not a comfortable position to be in. I have since learned to weaken my position to give myself and others some leeway when one of us is wrong. >I'm becoming increasingly convinced that good faith engagement is essentially impossible. It is certainly getting more difficult. I think it is still useful to engage with individuals in your chosen social circle honestly and in good-faith, otherwise why are they in your circle in the first place?