4 ms·

> This obscure Mac developer has 3 of the top 95 grossing apps in the Mac App Store. I wonder if it's money laundering and most of the purchases aren't victims

> This obscure Mac developer has 3 of the top 95 grossing apps in the Mac App Store. I wonder if it's money laundering and most of the purchases aren't victims.

88840-8855 5y ago
can you do the iap several times? actually a fantastic idea. purchase gift cards with cash, credit into an apple account, do iaps, cash out as dev. how much will be lost underway? 30%? where are the problems in that model?
- kmonsen 5y ago
  15% if you are big enough I believe
- ceejayoz 5y ago
  > can you do the iap several times? Yes, there's "consumable" IAPs for doing things like purchasing in-game currency in games.
  - philjohn 5y ago
    The worst thing to happen to mobile apps.
- 0x0 5y ago
  You'd need appleid accounts to load the gift cards into. I guess it would be tricky to set those up without linking phone numbers / apple device serials / ip addresses to your scam all the while establishing a reputation and legit looking usage history for them
- judge2020 5y ago
  30% isn't terrible in terms of laundering money, but chances are the App Store payout is how you're citing your income for taxes, so it's more risky than other ventures if Apple were to inform the IRS about something like "90% of this developer's revenue is via gift cards...".
  - sneak 5y ago
    It is when NFTs are 0%.
    - joebob42 5y ago
      I think also that it's often desirable to run multiple steps. Losing 30% from a whole pipeline is one thing, but losing 30% from one transaction out of a couple seems like a fairly big hit.
- heavyset_go 5y ago
  People already launder money with gift cards. Further laundering it through apps whose merchant accounts are registered to real human beings, because of Know Your Customer laws, ruins the laundering aspect. There's no reason to go through additional de-anonymizing steps via apps once you've got or sold gift cards.
  - bogwog 5y ago
    Especially when Apple takes an obscene 30%
  - extrapickles 5y ago
    That is where the “Earn $XXX/mo for doing nothing” scams come in. The victim would be effectively laundering the money from any KYC. The victim would not be sophisticated enough to point law enforcement your way. So the chain would be gift card->app->patsy->you.
robotnikman 5y ago
I've thought of this myself. Anecdotally, I once ran across a game on Steam which looked hastily put together with basic Unity store assets and had a single $5000 DLC... makes you wonder.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
chaostheory 5y ago
imo NFTs are easier for money laundering
- Nextgrid 5y ago
  If I was an AML analyst I'd scrutinize NFT/crypto transactions much more than Apple paying out (what looks like) a legitimate app development company.
yen223 5y ago
Aren't app store purchases easily tracked, on both the buyer and the merchant side? Which would make any money laundering attempt there easier to prosecute?
- tomjen3 5y ago
  You can buy the gift cards with cash, pay for the app with that and get legitimate money in a bank account.

> This obscure Mac developer has 3 of the top 95 grossing apps in the Mac App Store. I wonder if it's money laundering and most of the purchases aren't victims.

88840-8855 5y ago

can you do the iap several times? actually a fantastic idea. purchase gift cards with cash, credit into an apple account, do iaps, cash out as dev. how much will be lost underway? 30%? where are the problems in that model?

kmonsen 5y ago
15% if you are big enough I believe
ceejayoz 5y ago
> can you do the iap several times? Yes, there's "consumable" IAPs for doing things like purchasing in-game currency in games.
- philjohn 5y ago
  The worst thing to happen to mobile apps.
0x0 5y ago
You'd need appleid accounts to load the gift cards into. I guess it would be tricky to set those up without linking phone numbers / apple device serials / ip addresses to your scam all the while establishing a reputation and legit looking usage history for them
judge2020 5y ago
30% isn't terrible in terms of laundering money, but chances are the App Store payout is how you're citing your income for taxes, so it's more risky than other ventures if Apple were to inform the IRS about something like "90% of this developer's revenue is via gift cards...".
- sneak 5y ago
  It is when NFTs are 0%.
  - joebob42 5y ago
    I think also that it's often desirable to run multiple steps. Losing 30% from a whole pipeline is one thing, but losing 30% from one transaction out of a couple seems like a fairly big hit.
heavyset_go 5y ago
People already launder money with gift cards. Further laundering it through apps whose merchant accounts are registered to real human beings, because of Know Your Customer laws, ruins the laundering aspect. There's no reason to go through additional de-anonymizing steps via apps once you've got or sold gift cards.
- bogwog 5y ago
  Especially when Apple takes an obscene 30%
- extrapickles 5y ago
  That is where the “Earn $XXX/mo for doing nothing” scams come in. The victim would be effectively laundering the money from any KYC. The victim would not be sophisticated enough to point law enforcement your way. So the chain would be gift card->app->patsy->you.

robotnikman 5y ago

I've thought of this myself. Anecdotally, I once ran across a game on Steam which looked hastily put together with basic Unity store assets and had a single $5000 DLC... makes you wonder.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

chaostheory 5y ago

imo NFTs are easier for money laundering

Nextgrid 5y ago
If I was an AML analyst I'd scrutinize NFT/crypto transactions much more than Apple paying out (what looks like) a legitimate app development company.

yen223 5y ago

Aren't app store purchases easily tracked, on both the buyer and the merchant side? Which would make any money laundering attempt there easier to prosecute?

tomjen3 5y ago
You can buy the gift cards with cash, pay for the app with that and get legitimate money in a bank account.