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I think Apple see iMovie and GarageBand as the entry point into funnelling interested users towards Final Cut and Logic Pro when they’re ready to reach for some

I think Apple see iMovie and GarageBand as the entry point into funnelling interested users towards Final Cut and Logic Pro when they’re ready to reach for something more capable

dlivingston 5y ago
You also can’t discount how effective they are as marketing tools to signal “Apple is the computer company for artists and creatives”.
- adammenges 5y ago
  Yeah that’s fair too
adammenges 5y ago
Yeah maybe, I think most other companies tho would recognize that all of that is such a small part of their business and cut it off. I’m so happy Apple doesn’t.
- spoonjim 5y ago
  Yes, this is one of the ways Apple succeeds -- by being able to make management decisions like spending money on GarageBand and iMovie that would get cut in any other type of typical Corporate America VP structure.
  - rchaud 5y ago
    So who made the call to kill iWeb? Or other iLife products that disappeared?
Angostura 5y ago
They are also the reason that Macs turn up in secondary schools in the UK
Y-bar 5y ago
Yup, and I am still a bit salty Apple discontinued Aperture, which was to iPhoto as Final Cut Pro is to iMovie. I am paying for Lightroom Classic and there are still UI idiosyncrasies that makes no sense to me that just clicked in Aperture (Lightroom CC? Let's not even talk about that version...)
- Ancapistani 5y ago
  Me too. I'm using Lightroom CC, because I'd migrated away from Lightroom Classic several years before. I can't begin to understand why things like "open selected images as layers in Photoshop" _still_ isn't possible in Lightroom CC. It works really well on my iPad Pro, though, and gives me 90%+ of the features I need for my workflow there. I just wish they provided an accessible scripting environment that I could use to automate things.
  - Dracophoenix 5y ago
    What stopped you from sticking with Classic or moving to Davinci Resolve?
    - c0nsumer 5y ago
      Resolve? How is that a replacement for Lightroom Classic? I've been looking at CaptureOne myself as a replacement...
      - modoc 5y ago
        Do it. CaptureOne is the only thing I've found after Aperture that I like. Still miss Aperture, but CaptureOne is great, and they improve it frequently.
        c0nsumer 5y ago
        I've been dragging my feet because I Keep getting a friends and family discount on Lightroom Classic from an Adobe employee friend. But I really, really should... If I can also move away from Illustrator for map making, I'll be set. (Read: I really need to spend some time with Affinity Designer to be sure it meets my needs, then just cut the Adobe cord.)
spoonjim 5y ago
Not just Final Cut and Logic Pro, but the Apple ecosystem itself. I've long lusted after Google Pixel's camera quality but the three reasons I will never switch are iMessage, GarageBand, and iMovie. My literal 4 year old son can use iMovie on the iPad and it is a great way for us to construct family memories (I load in the clips and then he decides the order, the music, and the editing)
cactus2093 5y ago
I honestly don't understand their strategy with Final Cut and Logic Pro. These apps can't make very much money, they are a suspiciously good value and they never upsell you on anything. Logic Pro cost like $300 over a decade ago, it still costs $300 today, and all major updates in that time have been free for existing users. Compare that to a competitor like Ableton Live which has cost like $800 since Ableton Suite 8 and major upgrades have come out every 3-5 years and cost a few hundred dollars to upgrade. Or compare it to Pro Tools which now costs $300 for 1 year of a subscription license. So it really doesn't seem like funneling Garage Band users to Logic is a very high priority for Apple. More likely Garage Band and maybe even Logic Pro are loss leaders to show that the mac is a platform for creatives. On a related note I never understood why they killed off Aperture which was beloved by many photographers, why didn't they keep a similar upgrade path from the free Photos app -> Aperture like they did for Garage Band -> Logic Pro? Seems like another indication that they really don't like to be in the pro software business, they are only there reluctantly at this point.
- avar 5y ago
  It probably has a small dedicated team, and the sales revenue easily covers their salaries and any overhead. I don't get why niche programs like that within larger companies are the exception.
- jkestner 5y ago
  The pro apps are probably paying for themselves, but their purpose is to sell hardware, both directly because you want that functionality, and to serve as a benchmark for other pro apps especially when you have shiny new silicon to take advantage of.
- whazor 5y ago
  Final cut pro supposedly has around 2.5 Million users. Many of them buy expensive Macs and other Apple products. The software uses the latest features from Apple's hardware, which gives users an incentive to keep upgrading. I think they keep the software more affordable to attract new (starting out) users. Then eventually they will hopefully go for a Mac studio or something. Another question you could ask: why not make these pro tools free? I am guessing that they are using the income as an internal development budget. Should be sufficient to afford the development I think.
savoytruffle 5y ago
Alas for Aperture

I think Apple see iMovie and GarageBand as the entry point into funnelling interested users towards Final Cut and Logic Pro when they’re ready to reach for something more capable

dlivingston 5y ago

You also can’t discount how effective they are as marketing tools to signal “Apple is the computer company for artists and creatives”.

adammenges 5y ago
Yeah that’s fair too

adammenges 5y ago

Yeah maybe, I think most other companies tho would recognize that all of that is such a small part of their business and cut it off. I’m so happy Apple doesn’t.

spoonjim 5y ago
Yes, this is one of the ways Apple succeeds -- by being able to make management decisions like spending money on GarageBand and iMovie that would get cut in any other type of typical Corporate America VP structure.
- rchaud 5y ago
  So who made the call to kill iWeb? Or other iLife products that disappeared?

Angostura 5y ago

They are also the reason that Macs turn up in secondary schools in the UK

Y-bar 5y ago

Yup, and I am still a bit salty Apple discontinued Aperture, which was to iPhoto as Final Cut Pro is to iMovie. I am paying for Lightroom Classic and there are still UI idiosyncrasies that makes no sense to me that just clicked in Aperture (Lightroom CC? Let's not even talk about that version...)

Ancapistani 5y ago
Me too. I'm using Lightroom CC, because I'd migrated away from Lightroom Classic several years before. I can't begin to understand why things like "open selected images as layers in Photoshop" _still_ isn't possible in Lightroom CC. It works really well on my iPad Pro, though, and gives me 90%+ of the features I need for my workflow there. I just wish they provided an accessible scripting environment that I could use to automate things.
- Dracophoenix 5y ago
  What stopped you from sticking with Classic or moving to Davinci Resolve?
  - c0nsumer 5y ago
    Resolve? How is that a replacement for Lightroom Classic? I've been looking at CaptureOne myself as a replacement...
    - modoc 5y ago
      Do it. CaptureOne is the only thing I've found after Aperture that I like. Still miss Aperture, but CaptureOne is great, and they improve it frequently.
      - c0nsumer 5y ago
        I've been dragging my feet because I Keep getting a friends and family discount on Lightroom Classic from an Adobe employee friend. But I really, really should... If I can also move away from Illustrator for map making, I'll be set. (Read: I really need to spend some time with Affinity Designer to be sure it meets my needs, then just cut the Adobe cord.)

spoonjim 5y ago

Not just Final Cut and Logic Pro, but the Apple ecosystem itself. I've long lusted after Google Pixel's camera quality but the three reasons I will never switch are iMessage, GarageBand, and iMovie. My literal 4 year old son can use iMovie on the iPad and it is a great way for us to construct family memories (I load in the clips and then he decides the order, the music, and the editing)

cactus2093 5y ago

I honestly don't understand their strategy with Final Cut and Logic Pro. These apps can't make very much money, they are a suspiciously good value and they never upsell you on anything. Logic Pro cost like $300 over a decade ago, it still costs $300 today, and all major updates in that time have been free for existing users. Compare that to a competitor like Ableton Live which has cost like $800 since Ableton Suite 8 and major upgrades have come out every 3-5 years and cost a few hundred dollars to upgrade. Or compare it to Pro Tools which now costs $300 for 1 year of a subscription license. So it really doesn't seem like funneling Garage Band users to Logic is a very high priority for Apple. More likely Garage Band and maybe even Logic Pro are loss leaders to show that the mac is a platform for creatives. On a related note I never understood why they killed off Aperture which was beloved by many photographers, why didn't they keep a similar upgrade path from the free Photos app -> Aperture like they did for Garage Band -> Logic Pro? Seems like another indication that they really don't like to be in the pro software business, they are only there reluctantly at this point.

avar 5y ago
It probably has a small dedicated team, and the sales revenue easily covers their salaries and any overhead. I don't get why niche programs like that within larger companies are the exception.
jkestner 5y ago
The pro apps are probably paying for themselves, but their purpose is to sell hardware, both directly because you want that functionality, and to serve as a benchmark for other pro apps especially when you have shiny new silicon to take advantage of.
whazor 5y ago
Final cut pro supposedly has around 2.5 Million users. Many of them buy expensive Macs and other Apple products. The software uses the latest features from Apple's hardware, which gives users an incentive to keep upgrading. I think they keep the software more affordable to attract new (starting out) users. Then eventually they will hopefully go for a Mac studio or something. Another question you could ask: why not make these pro tools free? I am guessing that they are using the income as an internal development budget. Should be sufficient to afford the development I think.

savoytruffle 5y ago

Alas for Aperture