4 ms·

They're also largely ignored by the supposedly-not-conservative parts of the media. You get a very different impression of unions (mainly, that they're not very

They're also largely ignored by the supposedly-not-conservative parts of the media. You get a very different impression of unions (mainly, that they're not very active and/or barely exist) listening to NPR, versus Democracy Now.

pmoriarty 4y ago
How many Americans even know what Democracy Now is (much less listen to it), compared to the millions of FOX News viewers? Probably next to none.
- brimble 4y ago
  Yeah, totally, I'm reinforcing your point. Fox News and conservative AM radio (which has many programs with a larger listenership than Democracy Now, I'm sure), not to mention places like Breitbart or OAN, portray unions negatively or not at all, while other mainstreams sources mostly just ignore them. You've gotta go pretty fringe-left to find anything that treats labor action outside of maybe the AFL-CIO or a few Hollywood unions and guilds, as worth consistently covering at all.
dfxm12 4y ago
Even MSNBC management made their workers jump through extra hoops to recognize their union. I continue to have no idea how people criticize the media as being "too liberal" with a straight face. https://thehill.com/homenews/media/559028-msnbc-says-it-wont-voluntarily-recognize-new-union-effort/ https://thehill.com/homenews/media/559028-msnbc-says-it-wont...
- mc32 4y ago
  This does not disprove anything. MSNBC and others look after their own interests. That interest can be at odds with their ideology. They do not have to be internally consistent. Bernie Sanders wants millionaires (and billionaires) to pay very high taxes after certain cutoff --all well and good. He's a millionaire, the IRS allows you to overpay or donate to the treasury, but despite his beliefs, he personally does not overpay his taxes. The Soviet Union believed in workers' rights, except when it came to strategic state enterprises. Same with regard to luxury --yes, they frowned upon luxuries for the masses, but they did have dedicated "department stores" for the elites.
  - brimble 4y ago
    > Bernie Sanders wants millionaires (and billionaires) to pay very high taxes after certain cutoff --all well and good. He's a millionaire, the IRS allows you to overpay or donate to the treasury, but despite his beliefs, he personally does not overpay his taxes. This is something folks love to bring up as if it's hypocrisy (see also: Warren Buffet, also literally any other prominent rich person who's called for higher taxes), but it can be completely consistent to think that a net benefit can be achieved by a policy or law that causes you (and others) a little harm, but to see voluntarily causing oneself that same harm without the collective action to go along with it, as not doing enough good to be worth the harm. This behavior could be some kind of indication that a person's view is performative and they're in fact hypocrites who aren't serious about it—or it can indicate that they've actually thought this through and came to a reasonable position, or that they simply took the right class or two in college so they know to look out for these kinds of dynamics (where individual action does so little it's basically pointless self-sacrifice, but collective action with the exact same personal cost can be very effective).
    - mc32 4y ago
      My point is that MSNBC might actually believe in Unions but out of self interest are unwilling to sacrifice themselves.
      - brimble 4y ago
        Ah, good point and basically in-line with what I was pointing out in my post. That is possible.
      - wyre 4y ago
        A belief doesn’t mean much, imo, of anything if their actions aren’t aligned.
        mc32 4y ago
        Ok, I should have elaborated: They may believe in Unionism at large, for others to observe, like a parent steering their child from drugs, but they may see unions as antithetical to their own business. Lots of elite progressives are like this. Down with cops, defund the police, but then turn around and hire private security -see the mayor of Chicago, for example.
- pyuser583 4y ago
  Being liberal and not wanting unions at your own place are two very different things. A local non-profit, partisan, progressive newspaper fought its staff on unionizing just as hard as it’s for profit peers. This is a paper that exists to promote progressivism. Doesn’t make their content any less progressive.

pmoriarty 4y ago

How many Americans even know what Democracy Now is (much less listen to it), compared to the millions of FOX News viewers? Probably next to none.

brimble 4y ago
Yeah, totally, I'm reinforcing your point. Fox News and conservative AM radio (which has many programs with a larger listenership than Democracy Now, I'm sure), not to mention places like Breitbart or OAN, portray unions negatively or not at all, while other mainstreams sources mostly just ignore them. You've gotta go pretty fringe-left to find anything that treats labor action outside of maybe the AFL-CIO or a few Hollywood unions and guilds, as worth consistently covering at all.

dfxm12 4y ago

Even MSNBC management made their workers jump through extra hoops to recognize their union. I continue to have no idea how people criticize the media as being "too liberal" with a straight face. https://thehill.com/homenews/media/559028-msnbc-says-it-wont-voluntarily-recognize-new-union-effort/ https://thehill.com/homenews/media/559028-msnbc-says-it-wont...

mc32 4y ago
This does not disprove anything. MSNBC and others look after their own interests. That interest can be at odds with their ideology. They do not have to be internally consistent. Bernie Sanders wants millionaires (and billionaires) to pay very high taxes after certain cutoff --all well and good. He's a millionaire, the IRS allows you to overpay or donate to the treasury, but despite his beliefs, he personally does not overpay his taxes. The Soviet Union believed in workers' rights, except when it came to strategic state enterprises. Same with regard to luxury --yes, they frowned upon luxuries for the masses, but they did have dedicated "department stores" for the elites.
- brimble 4y ago
  > Bernie Sanders wants millionaires (and billionaires) to pay very high taxes after certain cutoff --all well and good. He's a millionaire, the IRS allows you to overpay or donate to the treasury, but despite his beliefs, he personally does not overpay his taxes. This is something folks love to bring up as if it's hypocrisy (see also: Warren Buffet, also literally any other prominent rich person who's called for higher taxes), but it can be completely consistent to think that a net benefit can be achieved by a policy or law that causes you (and others) a little harm, but to see voluntarily causing oneself that same harm without the collective action to go along with it, as not doing enough good to be worth the harm. This behavior could be some kind of indication that a person's view is performative and they're in fact hypocrites who aren't serious about it—or it can indicate that they've actually thought this through and came to a reasonable position, or that they simply took the right class or two in college so they know to look out for these kinds of dynamics (where individual action does so little it's basically pointless self-sacrifice, but collective action with the exact same personal cost can be very effective).
  - mc32 4y ago
    My point is that MSNBC might actually believe in Unions but out of self interest are unwilling to sacrifice themselves.
    - brimble 4y ago
      Ah, good point and basically in-line with what I was pointing out in my post. That is possible.
    - wyre 4y ago
      A belief doesn’t mean much, imo, of anything if their actions aren’t aligned.
      - mc32 4y ago
        Ok, I should have elaborated: They may believe in Unionism at large, for others to observe, like a parent steering their child from drugs, but they may see unions as antithetical to their own business. Lots of elite progressives are like this. Down with cops, defund the police, but then turn around and hire private security -see the mayor of Chicago, for example.
pyuser583 4y ago
Being liberal and not wanting unions at your own place are two very different things. A local non-profit, partisan, progressive newspaper fought its staff on unionizing just as hard as it’s for profit peers. This is a paper that exists to promote progressivism. Doesn’t make their content any less progressive.