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Top Mac app store dev abuses free with in-app purchase for bait-and-switch apps
- uuyi 5y ago
- kobalsky 5y ago> I have never been scammed by anything on any app stores. I would dare to say that people visiting this site aren't their target demographic. Also, you probably got scammed by your mechanic and never even realized it.
- uuyi 5y agoYeah my mechanic is terrible. Wastes hours trying to save money :)
- thirdsun 5y agoExactly. Who’s to say what’s a scam app and what’s not? Where to draw the line between fraud and an app that just doesn’t meet my expectations? The author mentions an audio editor that costs $125 per year as if that in itself is a scam. It might be considered one, I don’t know the app. However audio software can be expensive and value is a very subjective measure. In any case pricing alone shouldn’t be the deciding factor. Neither should it be up to Apple to decide whether an app is worth whatever it’s asking for - unless there’s actually anything illegal going on. For all I care they could offer a calculator app that costs $999 per month. People don’t have to agree to that and we shouldn’t act as if users aren’t able to understand clear pricing information and the explicit consent that is given via the subscribe button. If they don’t I think that’s on them. Furthermore speaking of free apps that turn out to be anything but: Is Netflix a scam? I’m sure it’s a top free app in the store and yet I can’t do anything with it unless I’m subscribing to the service.
- Apocryphon 5y agoDid you actually look at the ratings and reviews for that $125 audio editor? https://twitter.com/lapcatsoftware/status/1513684234250117132 https://twitter.com/lapcatsoftware/status/151368423425011713... https://apps.apple.com/us/app/audio-editor-record-edit/id1158788818 https://apps.apple.com/us/app/audio-editor-record-edit/id115...
- thirdsun 5y agoThat's not the point. What I was trying to say is that a bad app doesn't have to be a scam and that pricing or rating isn't a reliable indicator for that. Again, the fundamental question at the root of this issue is who's to decide what things should cost? Since when is it illegal to offer bad products that cost too much? That's a negotiation between creator and potential customer. Not buying a product that doesn't meet your expectations or budget is perfectly fine. This doesn't need to be regulated.
- Apocryphon 5y agoIf a bad app that isolates all of its actual functionality into an expensive subscription mode isn’t a scam, it’s at least a rip-off, and really walks the line between scam and terrible product priced outrageously. At which point it might as well be a scam, because there’s clearly dishonest marketing involved. The regulation is that an egregiously bad app should not be allowed to be present on a top grossing list. Apple should inspect this case and allow dissatisfied customers to receive refunds accordingly and swiftly.
- Nextgrid 5y ago> This obscure Mac developer has 3 of the top 95 grossing apps in the Mac App Store. I wonder if it's money laundering and most of the purchases aren't victims.
- 88840-8855 5y agocan you do the iap several times? actually a fantastic idea. purchase gift cards with cash, credit into an apple account, do iaps, cash out as dev. how much will be lost underway? 30%? where are the problems in that model?
- kmonsen 5y ago15% if you are big enough I believe
- ceejayoz 5y ago> can you do the iap several times? Yes, there's "consumable" IAPs for doing things like purchasing in-game currency in games.
- philjohn 5y agoThe worst thing to happen to mobile apps.
- 0x0 5y agoYou'd need appleid accounts to load the gift cards into. I guess it would be tricky to set those up without linking phone numbers / apple device serials / ip addresses to your scam all the while establishing a reputation and legit looking usage history for them
- judge2020 5y ago30% isn't terrible in terms of laundering money, but chances are the App Store payout is how you're citing your income for taxes, so it's more risky than other ventures if Apple were to inform the IRS about something like "90% of this developer's revenue is via gift cards...".
- gnicholas 5y agoYesterday my friend was trying to take pulse ox measurements on his Apple Watch. After searching on the web, he downloaded an app called Blood Oxygen App, [1] which costs $20/yr. It didn't work without a subscription, it seemed, so he asked me for help. I figured out that the Apple Watch comes with a built-in app called Blood Oxygen (no "App" at the end) that does this for free. I can't believe Apple let this through their review process. Think of how much money they've made by fooling people into thinking their app is the official Apple app. https://apps.apple.com/us/app/blood-oxygen-app/id1541992656 https://apps.apple.com/us/app/blood-oxygen-app/id1541992656
- GoodJokes 5y ago
- ARandomerDude 5y agoThink about how much money Apple made by letting this app developer fool people into thinking it was the official app.
- KerrAvon 5y agoThinking about zero dollars. The App Store states the developer name prominently. The graphics look nothing like an official Apple app. It nowhere claims any official anything.
- function_seven 5y agoEvery time I see these scammy apps in the App Store, it erodes the foundations that support the walls around Apple's garden. If those walls turn out to be shitty rusty fences instead, then Apple should tear them down completely and give other gardeners an opportunity to make better spaces. Instead users are in the middle ground between the safety of the walled garden and the freedom of a wide-open app ecosystem. Worst of both worlds.
- AlexandrB 5y agoI agree. I'm really sick of Apple's handling of their App Store. It's been nearly 14 years and the only app distribution models Apple permits are pay once (with possible IAP), free with IAP, and subscription. Still no ability for developers to provide paid upgrades or "active subscription gives you updates" models. I think Apple has done more than anyone to turn software into a rental business where every calendar and to-do app now needs its own subscription. I love using the payment and subscription management systems in iOS - it's much better than many bespoke systems - but it's not worth having to put up with their subscription-philia.
- judge2020 5y ago> Still no ability for developers to provide paid upgrades or "active subscription gives you updates" models. While not via the app store itself, you're expected to lock new features behind a new in-app purchase sku, while still providing (security|stability) updates to users who aren't going to pay for new features.
- ytpete 5y agoThat doesn't seem like quite the same model though - a new customer has to purchase the base app plus all IAPs in order to gain the full feature set. Whereas in the traditional paid upgrades model, when you pay the full app price you get all current features and then you can pay smaller incremental prices in the future for new-feature updates.
- 5y ago
- ordinaryradical 5y agoWhat's the point of a walled garden if the gardener doesn't give a shit?
- spacemanmatt 5y agoOnce you're trapped inside their walled garden, they make you call it fertilizer and speak of its virtues.
- willis936 5y agoTo make a lot of money.
- makecheck 5y agoIt’s like they walled-in the garden, look only at the walls when there’s a problem, and meanwhile the scammers are parachuting in.
- ProAm 5y agoSame reason Amazon doesnt care if they people sell counterfeit items, everyone makes money.
- dodobirdlord 5y agoThe counterfactual isn’t that there’s no gardener and things are the same, in the counterfactual with no gardener things are even worse.
- josephcsible 5y agoNo, the counterfactual is way better. There's no more apps incorrectly rejected, and no more of Apple getting 30% of everyone's money for no good reason. The only benefit walled gardens even supposedly have is that apps like these wouldn't be allowed in.
- brimble 5y agoI can still cancel all my subscriptions on iOS services in one place, very easily, all the same way. I still only have to trust one big, reasonably competent & responsible entity with my money when making a purchase decision, rather than trying to evaluate things on a case-by-case basis with every little two-person indie development shop. I don't have to figure out a different checkout flow for every app or service I buy on iOS. There aren't even two of them! Just one. Consistent, fast, and I trust it (well enough). Apple's overall ecosystem still does a lot to make people feel comfortable & safe saying "yes" to a purchase and installing some software from a developer they've never heard of, even if the curation and presentation could be a lot better (but would just invite more waves of "waaaaah Apple won't let my derivative, inferior, somewhat-scammy app in the store, it's so unfair!" posts on HN, to great acclaim)
- makecheck 5y agoIt’s absolutely soul-crushing to see the software market warped by broken store models. Legitimate developers can’t seem to convince people to pay anywhere near enough to sustain a business, and meanwhile scammers get millions.
- heavyset_go 5y ago> It’s absolutely soul-crushing to see the software market warped by broken store models What makes it worse, in my mind, is that the entirety of the mobile application market has been held hostage by these rent-seeking app store models for over a decade, now.
- Doubtme 5y agoBy design.
- annoyingnoob 5y agoI miss the pre-internet and pre-smartphone days when you could buy software at a reasonable price and use it in perpetuity.
- outcoldman 5y agoI have an app, that I sell with App Store (OpenIn). So the Openly used to be called OpenIn Pro. Only because this app looked like a fraud, I submitted a trademark violation. The author of the app replied with a lot of confidence, that I was attacking their company, etc. But they have changed the name to Openly at the end. My complain was that this app definitely have a lot of fake reviews, and my guess by being free they can generate a lot of downloads to keep it in top of the app store. And you can see a few of bad reviews, where some people actually purchased the app via in-app-purchases. And the name of my app brings traffic to the app store, and they use it in their advantage. He called it false accusations. That they trust apple reviews, and that apple take it seriously. And a lot of well written text protecting themselves. He was referring also to the head of legal department that they might take actions against me for false accusations. Anyway, after that I just downloaded their apps and submitted concerns about legitimacy of their apps. That did not do anything. I am surprised that those apps exist. Feel like they are 100% scam. My only guess is that somehow the people from review team know those developers and somehow let them to be on app store. Considering how hard sometimes to pass the review, that is the only explanation I have.
- sebastien_bois 5y ago> My only guess is that somehow the people from review team know those developers and somehow let them to be on app store. Considering how hard sometimes to pass the review, that is the only explanation I have. The explanation is simple: it's an app that makes Apple money, so of course Apple is going to let it through unchallenged. Apple is not consumers' BFF - it's the BFF of their shareholders, for which they'll do anything to please.
- sneak 5y agoApple doesn't mind scams that make Apple money and don't erode the Apple brand image.
- sebastien_bois 5y agoBut of course, Tim Cook likes to whine about Zuckerberg's hypocrisy on fees (which isn't happening yet), and complain about imaginary privacy nightmares if sideloading is allowed on iOS, while ignoring the very real and very current scams on their precious appstore.
- carom 5y agoI experienced this on iOS the other week. I think I was looking for a video editing app. A ton were free but required immediate sign up to a subscription with a free period to use the product at all.
- armchairhacker 5y ago> GCalendar for Google Calendar > Docs Pro for Google Drive > Openly a Link Damn, if only there was a free app for google calendar, google docs, and looks up App open my web browser.
- endisneigh 5y agoMake web apps, in the ops case, report
- hdjjhhvvhga 5y agoI thought it is a standard scum practice these days silently accepted by Apple. Practically every "free" app I downloaded from the App Store in the last few months behaved in this way.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- lupire 5y agoIt's also a blatant trademark violation. Apple would never allow a "Music for Apple Music" app in their store, but is happy to infringe on competitors' trademarks.
- sergiotapia 5y agoThe entire mobile store is full of garbage. 98% trash. I don't know how Google and Apple let it get so bad. The bar is too low. What kind of an asshole sells a $39.99/week subscription in a game hoping people misclick on the accept button.
- robotnikman 5y agoTo add insult to injury, their automated AI moderation system then ends up banning legitimate developers and you see their horror stories posted on HN.
- brimble 5y agoI truly wish they'd at least separate out the whale-seeking IAP or subscription shit into its own section, which I could then totally filter out of my searches. I don't even bother to look at games on iOS anymore, because it's too hard to dig through the scum. Also just, like, raise their standards. I'd love to see the worst 50% or so of the App Store just vanish.
- davidkuennen 5y agoIsn't this practice used to scam people in the App Store since forever now? I remember coming across exactly this practice 1-2 years ago here with some document scanner apps that made 10M/month revenue through that.
- olliej 5y agoSo glad app review ensures only high quality apps :-/
- Adraghast 5y agoHow long ago was the commentariat fainting over Apple ruining DHH’s livelihood by not allowing him to do this exact thing with Hey?
- josephcsible 5y agoHow is this even remotely similar to Hey?
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- wly_cdgr 5y agoYo quit linking to walled garden Shitter threads
- smithjohan 5y ago[flagged]