7 ms·

"The common portrayal of unions as good and corporations as evil is over simplistic and often backwards." The common portrayal (at least in the US) is that uni

"The common portrayal of unions as good and corporations as evil is over simplistic and often backwards." The common portrayal (at least in the US) is that unions are evil. That's why American unions and union activity have been almost completely squashed in the US for decades now. This sentiment is starting to change a bit as people are finally starting to wake up to the massive inequality in this country and the enormous wealth and power of corporations and the oligarchs who control them vs the barely subsistence existence of the ever growing lower classes.

robert_foss 5y ago
American laws around unions are very weak compared to other countries. Sympathy / Support strikes by neighboring unions are not legal for example. This was what allowed unions to prevail at McDonalds in Denmark. Yes, flipping burgers at McD is a union job Denmark. The BigMac index of Denmark is 4.4, compared to 5.67 in America.
- TaylorAlexander 5y ago
  Well phrased differently, laws around unions are strong but they are strong in how they limit the power of unions.
- pmoriarty 5y ago
  > Sympathy / Support strikes by neighboring unions are not legal for example. I don't understand why union members just don't break the law and strike anyway. A lot of the protests during the Civil Rights struggle in America were illegal (and were met with lethal force, dogs, firehoses, etc..) yet the people still protested... and prevailed.
  - Cederfjard 5y ago
    This is not backed up by any data, so I welcome being rebuked, but my gut feeling is that those people were worse off than the ones who are unionized today, so the risks were worth it. Perhaps today the calculus yields a different outcome.
  - flurie 5y ago
    The monumental failure of the PATCO strike[1] has had lingering effects that continue through today. [1] https://libraries.uta.edu/news-events/blog/1981-patco-strike https://libraries.uta.edu/news-events/blog/1981-patco-strike
mc32 5y ago
Wait, where and in what circumstance are they portrayed as evil? The main place I see them presented as backwards and unproductive is by common folk dealing with them and some business owners who also resent a lot of the inefficiency. But ‘portrayed as evil’ seems to try to say that in the media and cinema, etc., they are portrayed as evil … that’s not my experience. My experience is on the ground common folk talk smack about them. That said, if we get Unions to do the job of the Feds (FTC) and contribute to dragging them down via inefficiency a couple of notches allowing competition to viably compete, I'm all for it.
- pmoriarty 5y ago
  They're portrayed as evil in conservative media and by conservative politicians... which, as we know from Trump's election, are a hugely powerful and effective influence on American politics.
  - mc32 5y ago
    So, not by the mainstream media, right? So in some circles they are portrayed in a bad light. I think it's an exaggeration to say they are (implied universally) portrayed as evil. My experience with regard to negative opinion against them is from people who have to interact with Union employees.
    - pmoriarty 5y ago
      "So, not by the mainstream media, right?" FOX News is the most successful news network in the US. It's very much in the mainstream.
      - mc32 5y ago
        Great. And what is the frequency and ratio of their mentioning unions and unions _EVIL_?
      - rayiner 5y ago
        Fox is the single largest one, but all the other ones put together are left leaning and bigger combined than Fox. You’re just making a point about consolidation in conservative media (okay?) not about the total impact of liberal versus conservative media.
tyingq 5y ago
"almost completely squashed in the US for decades now" I'm confused by this. There are many notable large workgroups in the US with powerful unions. Police, for example. Pilots, Teachers, etc.
- brimble 5y ago
  Teachers' union power varies a ton state-by-state. In mine, both our regional union and the NEA either can't, or choose not to, do anything, really, including in cases of blatant contract violations. I don't think they're allowed to negotiate those contracts in the first place, either.
rayiner 5y ago
It doesn’t help that the unions have turned themselves into mere adjuncts of the Democratic Party, which now is run by the senior executive leadership of those corporations.
- tptacek 5y ago
  The Republican party could do better with institutional labor if it removed the planks of its platform that are about gutting institutional labor.
passivate 5y ago
>The common portrayal (at least in the US) is that unions are evil. >That's why American unions and union activity have been almost completely squashed in the US for decades now. But the public favourability hasn't declined (at-least as per this poll) https://news.gallup.com/poll/241679/labor-union-approval-steady-year-high.aspx https://news.gallup.com/poll/241679/labor-union-approval-ste...
willnonya 5y ago
You consume too much propaganda. Unions themselves and the reality that so much work is no longer well suited to unionization are responsible for the decline. Unions served a purpose and in somce cases still should but their long history of corruption and their own oppressive tendencies are what drive people away from them. Nevermind that few people want to pay for the priviledge of having less say about, and in most cases less power over, their own futures and employment. The only place unions thrive are in the public sector whoch itself is an obscene abuse.

robert_foss 5y ago

American laws around unions are very weak compared to other countries. Sympathy / Support strikes by neighboring unions are not legal for example. This was what allowed unions to prevail at McDonalds in Denmark. Yes, flipping burgers at McD is a union job Denmark. The BigMac index of Denmark is 4.4, compared to 5.67 in America.

TaylorAlexander 5y ago
Well phrased differently, laws around unions are strong but they are strong in how they limit the power of unions.
pmoriarty 5y ago
> Sympathy / Support strikes by neighboring unions are not legal for example. I don't understand why union members just don't break the law and strike anyway. A lot of the protests during the Civil Rights struggle in America were illegal (and were met with lethal force, dogs, firehoses, etc..) yet the people still protested... and prevailed.
- Cederfjard 5y ago
  This is not backed up by any data, so I welcome being rebuked, but my gut feeling is that those people were worse off than the ones who are unionized today, so the risks were worth it. Perhaps today the calculus yields a different outcome.
- flurie 5y ago
  The monumental failure of the PATCO strike[1] has had lingering effects that continue through today. [1] https://libraries.uta.edu/news-events/blog/1981-patco-strike https://libraries.uta.edu/news-events/blog/1981-patco-strike

mc32 5y ago

Wait, where and in what circumstance are they portrayed as evil? The main place I see them presented as backwards and unproductive is by common folk dealing with them and some business owners who also resent a lot of the inefficiency. But ‘portrayed as evil’ seems to try to say that in the media and cinema, etc., they are portrayed as evil … that’s not my experience. My experience is on the ground common folk talk smack about them. That said, if we get Unions to do the job of the Feds (FTC) and contribute to dragging them down via inefficiency a couple of notches allowing competition to viably compete, I'm all for it.

pmoriarty 5y ago
They're portrayed as evil in conservative media and by conservative politicians... which, as we know from Trump's election, are a hugely powerful and effective influence on American politics.
- mc32 5y ago
  So, not by the mainstream media, right? So in some circles they are portrayed in a bad light. I think it's an exaggeration to say they are (implied universally) portrayed as evil. My experience with regard to negative opinion against them is from people who have to interact with Union employees.
  - pmoriarty 5y ago
    "So, not by the mainstream media, right?" FOX News is the most successful news network in the US. It's very much in the mainstream.
    - mc32 5y ago
      Great. And what is the frequency and ratio of their mentioning unions and unions _EVIL_?
    - rayiner 5y ago
      Fox is the single largest one, but all the other ones put together are left leaning and bigger combined than Fox. You’re just making a point about consolidation in conservative media (okay?) not about the total impact of liberal versus conservative media.

tyingq 5y ago

"almost completely squashed in the US for decades now" I'm confused by this. There are many notable large workgroups in the US with powerful unions. Police, for example. Pilots, Teachers, etc.

brimble 5y ago
Teachers' union power varies a ton state-by-state. In mine, both our regional union and the NEA either can't, or choose not to, do anything, really, including in cases of blatant contract violations. I don't think they're allowed to negotiate those contracts in the first place, either.

rayiner 5y ago

It doesn’t help that the unions have turned themselves into mere adjuncts of the Democratic Party, which now is run by the senior executive leadership of those corporations.

tptacek 5y ago
The Republican party could do better with institutional labor if it removed the planks of its platform that are about gutting institutional labor.

passivate 5y ago

>The common portrayal (at least in the US) is that unions are evil. >That's why American unions and union activity have been almost completely squashed in the US for decades now. But the public favourability hasn't declined (at-least as per this poll) https://news.gallup.com/poll/241679/labor-union-approval-steady-year-high.aspx https://news.gallup.com/poll/241679/labor-union-approval-ste...

willnonya 5y ago

You consume too much propaganda. Unions themselves and the reality that so much work is no longer well suited to unionization are responsible for the decline. Unions served a purpose and in somce cases still should but their long history of corruption and their own oppressive tendencies are what drive people away from them. Nevermind that few people want to pay for the priviledge of having less say about, and in most cases less power over, their own futures and employment. The only place unions thrive are in the public sector whoch itself is an obscene abuse.