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Do you think the camps in Xinjiang are as bad, or worse than Guantanamo? I think they are worse because: 1) You are put there for your ethnicity and religion,
by BobbyJo 5y ago
Do you think the camps in Xinjiang are as bad, or worse than Guantanamo?
I think they are worse because:
1) You are put there for your ethnicity and religion, (no suspected crimes are needed for detainment), despite being a Chinese citizen.
2) Freedom of press in the US means we found out bad things were happening in Guantanamo, and the prison has since been mostly wound down.
I think Guantanamo is good example of why the US's interest in Xinjiang is not disingenuous. We felt the same about Guantanamo as we do about Xinjiang: it's bad.
- lenkite 5y ago> 1) You are put there for your ethnicity and religion, (no suspected crimes are needed for detainment), despite being a Chinese citizen. Ditto in Guantanamo. I suggest doing a bit more research. > 2) Freedom of press in the US means we found out bad things were happening in Guantanamo, and the prison has since been mostly wound down. Done not by the US press but by Wikileaks, whose founder ( Assange) is being hounded by both the US govt and the media. Stop with the sanctimonious hypocrisy please.
- BobbyJo 5y ago> Ditto in Guantanamo. I suggest doing a bit more research. There are far more than 1000 Islamists in the US. Not sure where you're pulling that statement from. > Done not by the US press but by Wikileaks, whose founder ( Assange) is being hounded by both the US govt and the media. And I can freely read all about it. It was picked up by every major news organization on American soil. >Stop with the sanctimonious hypocrisy please. Is it hypocritical to point out bad comparisons? I think Gitmo was bad. I think Xinjiang is worse given it's larger scale. I'd like both to stop, along with a billion other things, but here we are, on a thread about Xinjiang.
- lenkite 5y ago> There are far more than 1000 Islamists in the US. Not sure where you're pulling that statement from. I am responding to this statement: "You are put there for your ethnicity and religion, (no suspected crimes are needed for detainment), despite being a Chinese citizen.". I am sure you are aware that there were no suspected crimes needed for detainment in Gitmo and the US government said: "It Can Indefinitely Detain Anyone — Even U.S. Citizens". > Is it hypocritical to point out bad comparisons? No, not as an individual and I will concede that to you. But as a government, MOST certainly yes. The US always berates and sanctions other nations for policies that itself regularly carries out without any blowback. Most of the bad stuff never makes it to the US media if the media favours the party in power and it doesn't serve US interests. One set of standards for the US (& its close allies) and another set of standards for the rest of the world
- BobbyJo 5y ago> I am sure you are aware that there were no suspected crimes needed for detainment in Gitmo and the US government said: "It Can Indefinitely Detain Anyone — Even U.S. Citizens". My point was that didn't happen. If we were putting people there solely for their religion and ethnicity, it'd be much more than a thousand. It would be millions... like in Xinjiang. > No, not as an individual and I will concede that to you. But as a government, MOST certainly yes. I'm not a government. You called me hypocritical. In any case, democracies are necessarily hypocritical. They change leaders pretty often, and different leaders tend to have different beliefs.
- lenkite 5y ago> My point was that didn't happen. If we were putting people there solely for their religion and ethnicity, it'd be much more than a thousand. It would be millions... like in Xinjiang. Tens of thousands passed through Abu Ghraib too in Iraq. A truckload of torture and prisoner abuse done to people of only ONE ethnicity. People lost limbs in prison. No one in the US administration paid for these crimes against humanity. Some folks in the US govt who were in explicit favour of hard intervention in Iraq and who were deeply influential in igniting the Iraq war are the same ones criticising China now. (Hint: Under Secretary of State). So, yes, it is definitely sanctimonious and ridiculous hypocrisy. Not you personally, but I assumed you were supporting the US government in this stance. If not, I apologize.
- BobbyJo 5y ago> Tens of thousands passed through Abu Ghraib too in Iraq. A truckload of torture and prisoner abuse done to people of only ONE ethnicity. If we put Iraqis in prison because of their religion and ethnicity, there would have been millions locked up. In Xinjiang, people are put in camps because of their religion and ethnicity, that's why millions are locked up. Key word: because > Some folks in the US govt who were in explicit favour of hard intervention in Iraq and who were deeply influential in igniting the Iraq war are the same ones criticising China now. Sometimes murderers snitch on murderers. Doesn't mean they shouldn't be arrested. I mean, there is plenty of evidence on what's happening in Xinjiang, it's not like we are talking about taking war-hawks on their word.
- panick21_ 5y agoFreedom of the press doesn't prevent the majority of Americans getting served whole distorted picture of what happened in Iraq and the Middle East in general or just flat out misinformation, or simply no reporting at all. Because there are very few actual journalist on the ground (and even less with any understanding of the local politics), most of the media just gets their information from gov news releases. Eventually it wide spread abuse in one prison in Iraq came to be known and was downplayed and called isolated. People old enough will remember the prisoner on a dog leash for example. But there were many other prisons as well. And many had even worse control for abuse so we can assume what happens. And tons of other things the US does in Middle East that are secret or so widely distorted that its hilarious to even call it news. Reliable allies turn into terrorist murderers within one strategic meeting. And terrorist turn into freedom fighters at the drop of a hat.