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> You seem to expect that if plan A fails, that's that, there is no plan B, C, etc. There clearly isnt. By every fucking means there is no plan B. Unless you

> You seem to expect that if plan A fails, that's that, there is no plan B, C, etc. There clearly isnt. By every fucking means there is no plan B. Unless you call shell a city to the ground a "plan". And now that is being abandoned. > But that's not how it works, and especially not how it works with Russia. Apparently plan A's also don't work with russia like they should. Anyone trying to scaremonger that big bad russia is still out to get ukraine is a fool or a troll. Two months ago nato was still planning for case when russian tanks will be in berlin by sunset, now we can see they can barley travel to a border town. They fell flat face unable to do anything for a whole month (not counting all the war crimes by command and by individual units/soldiers). Now their troops are tired and most munitions are spent, not to mention the loses. But yet russia has more plans? What are those retreat plans? As a matter of fact russia reunited and rekindled unity in ukraine and eu, pushed eu countries to diversify their fossil fuel imports and blew wind into green energy sails. Sweeden and Finland are now partners of nato. And with crashing economy china becomes a big daddy of russia. Is that plan B?

thriftwy 5y ago
What if these aren't retreat plans? I assume the plan is now to fully take Mariupol, destroy the army that Ukraine has on Donbass (and which is also very tired and without munitions) and by that, sort-of achieve the military objectives. I don't know what's the plan of converting a local military victory to a political success, though. The idea was to make Ukraine recognize the loss of territory - don't see that happening. I'm not writing to you directly so please only respond if you have anything constructive.
- me_me_me 5y ago
  Their plan was quite obvious roll in from north take capital, and control major supply lines routes leading to south and east fronts. Then install puppet government and make them give away claims to crimea and eastern provinces. There is a large newly discovered gas field there that putin surely would love to claim for russia. They clearly failed with north invasion and disruption of supply lines. They are clearly retreating and the military leadership is either dead by Ukrainians or let go by kremlin. You don't fire your general(s) for achieving goals. Russia is amassing troops on south and east, as probably last attempt to take and hold ground. But that will be much harder now (no political support of puppet government, plus failed to disrupt logistical channels). They have less then a month to do something substantial to claim war goals for their Victory Day parade.
sharken 5y ago
China won't be the economic force it could be anytime soon. Their futule Zero COVID strategy is making sure of that. And it's not scaremongering to say that Russia wants to remove Ukraine from the map, that is literally Putins plan. But thankfully it looks like the plan won't happen.
- me_me_me 5y ago
  > China won't be the economic force it could be anytime soon. What do you mean? 90% of stuff we have is with Made in China sticker on it. > And it's not scaremongering to say that Russia wants to remove Ukraine from the map, I didnt say that, I said that russia can only dream about it, since they are clearly not able to do it. As a matter of fact they had everything prepared to suppress population and purge the leaders of Ukraine after the blitz. So their thankfully failed plan was to crush and dismantle Ukraine.
zardo 5y ago
> Unless you call shell a city to the ground a "plan". And now that is being abandoned. Shelling cities to the ground is absolutely a plan A tactic. Armor can't return fire at high azimuthal angles, to move it through a city without risk of ambush, they destroy tall buildings near the route. And to avoid giving away the route ahead of time, they cut multiple routes.

thriftwy 5y ago

What if these aren't retreat plans? I assume the plan is now to fully take Mariupol, destroy the army that Ukraine has on Donbass (and which is also very tired and without munitions) and by that, sort-of achieve the military objectives. I don't know what's the plan of converting a local military victory to a political success, though. The idea was to make Ukraine recognize the loss of territory - don't see that happening. I'm not writing to you directly so please only respond if you have anything constructive.

me_me_me 5y ago
Their plan was quite obvious roll in from north take capital, and control major supply lines routes leading to south and east fronts. Then install puppet government and make them give away claims to crimea and eastern provinces. There is a large newly discovered gas field there that putin surely would love to claim for russia. They clearly failed with north invasion and disruption of supply lines. They are clearly retreating and the military leadership is either dead by Ukrainians or let go by kremlin. You don't fire your general(s) for achieving goals. Russia is amassing troops on south and east, as probably last attempt to take and hold ground. But that will be much harder now (no political support of puppet government, plus failed to disrupt logistical channels). They have less then a month to do something substantial to claim war goals for their Victory Day parade.

sharken 5y ago

China won't be the economic force it could be anytime soon. Their futule Zero COVID strategy is making sure of that. And it's not scaremongering to say that Russia wants to remove Ukraine from the map, that is literally Putins plan. But thankfully it looks like the plan won't happen.

me_me_me 5y ago
> China won't be the economic force it could be anytime soon. What do you mean? 90% of stuff we have is with Made in China sticker on it. > And it's not scaremongering to say that Russia wants to remove Ukraine from the map, I didnt say that, I said that russia can only dream about it, since they are clearly not able to do it. As a matter of fact they had everything prepared to suppress population and purge the leaders of Ukraine after the blitz. So their thankfully failed plan was to crush and dismantle Ukraine.

zardo 5y ago

> Unless you call shell a city to the ground a "plan". And now that is being abandoned. Shelling cities to the ground is absolutely a plan A tactic. Armor can't return fire at high azimuthal angles, to move it through a city without risk of ambush, they destroy tall buildings near the route. And to avoid giving away the route ahead of time, they cut multiple routes.