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I really appreciate the substantive comment. I disagree, but I don't think it's worth arguing about here. My point really doesn't have anything to do with the m

I really appreciate the substantive comment. I disagree, but I don't think it's worth arguing about here. My point really doesn't have anything to do with the merits or demerits of young childhood gender transitions. Fact is, it's a position held by a minority, but the majority is powerless to do anything about it because they are absolutely terrified of the left's political power. They're afraid to even say something about it. Certain political groups are getting close to completely transcending the liberal democratic truce.

tempestn 5y ago
And I appreciate that, especially in the broader context of the article we're commenting on! I agree with your broader point that there are topics in our society where one might be ostracized for expressing or even exploring a view outside a certain consensus, even if it might be one held by many people. And obviously that does make good faith communication difficult. Of course some might say that certain views are so vile they shouldn't be given any consideration. Something like expressing overt racial slurs for instance. And I can see the argument that it's beneficial for society to shun those who express such things. But it can certainly be taken too far, and often is. And the effect is even more pronounced I think within a political coalition than across the spectrum, because there's even more pressure to conform to the consensus view. I realize the gender transition thing was beside your main point; you just seemed like a reasonable person with a differing view who might be open to my perspective there. I wouldn't expect you to change your mind based on an anecdote from a random stranger, but I hope you'll keep it in mind. FWIW I'm more sympathetic to your other example: trans athletes are a difficult issue IMO. In general I wouldn't want transgender people to be deprived of any of the rights anyone else of the same gender would have. I think bathroom bans are ridiculous and cruel for instance. But in the context of sport, there is also a legitimate concern regarding fairness for other athletes. I honestly don't know what the best outcome is there, but I do think it's something reasonable people should be able to discuss without being vilified.

tempestn 5y ago

And I appreciate that, especially in the broader context of the article we're commenting on! I agree with your broader point that there are topics in our society where one might be ostracized for expressing or even exploring a view outside a certain consensus, even if it might be one held by many people. And obviously that does make good faith communication difficult. Of course some might say that certain views are so vile they shouldn't be given any consideration. Something like expressing overt racial slurs for instance. And I can see the argument that it's beneficial for society to shun those who express such things. But it can certainly be taken too far, and often is. And the effect is even more pronounced I think within a political coalition than across the spectrum, because there's even more pressure to conform to the consensus view. I realize the gender transition thing was beside your main point; you just seemed like a reasonable person with a differing view who might be open to my perspective there. I wouldn't expect you to change your mind based on an anecdote from a random stranger, but I hope you'll keep it in mind. FWIW I'm more sympathetic to your other example: trans athletes are a difficult issue IMO. In general I wouldn't want transgender people to be deprived of any of the rights anyone else of the same gender would have. I think bathroom bans are ridiculous and cruel for instance. But in the context of sport, there is also a legitimate concern regarding fairness for other athletes. I honestly don't know what the best outcome is there, but I do think it's something reasonable people should be able to discuss without being vilified.