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But from the very basic metric of not wanting people to have bad things happen to them, when you see promoters of state powers intent on using it to tear down c

by rtpg 5y ago

But from the very basic metric of not wanting people to have bad things happen to them, when you see promoters of state powers intent on using it to tear down civil rights as fast as possible, strong state power in the current political environment seems like a major regression for many people in the country. OK sure, some people want more local power. Why? Lower taxes? Or maybe because they don't like Oberfell or Casey. It's important to look at consequences of changes.

nostromo 5y ago
Federal power can be used to eliminate civil rights just as easily as it can be used to create them. Besides, the congress stopped expanding civil rights decades ago. Now it only comes from the Supreme Court, which is unaffected by more federalism. Congress could vote tomorrow to cement abortion as a right, or gay marriage as a right… but they choose not too. The cynic in me thinks that they choose not to so both sides can continue to raise money fear mongering about the Supreme Court.
- rtpg 5y ago
  States follow the Supreme Court's rulings, that is less guaranteed in a situation where there is less balance of power. There is no physical force preventing states from ignoring rulings (and of course in practice they do ignore shit, but politics happens at the courts as well). I agree 100% that Congress could cement abortion as a right tomorrow and should have a billion years ago. It's insulting to everyone that we have had to watch the degradation of rights through court rulings over time as congress shrugs its shoulders because they are afraid of having convictions. But I still think that if states had more power, we simply would have less civil rights across the board. States can already pass laws and guarantee rights at a state level, and many simply choose not to. It's all terrible right now, but I can only see things getting worse if you just say "let's have the states do stuff", based on the past ... I don't know, century of American history. Just how I see things at the moment though, and I will freely admit I am biased to believe my theory and haven't tried to research much to the contrary.
  - nostromo 5y ago
    I get what you’re saying. But remember laws like DOMA that were passed not very long ago that were explicitly written to prevent states from expanding rights. And almost all recent civil rights advancements have not come from congress but the courts. Since the Civil Rights Act, the trend is that congress and the executive narrows rights and the court broadens them.
- watwut 5y ago
  > Besides, the congress stopped expanding civil rights decades ago. Now it only comes from the Supreme Court, which is unaffected by more federalism. Supreme Court is not expanding civil rights.

by rtpg 5y ago

nostromo 5y ago

Federal power can be used to eliminate civil rights just as easily as it can be used to create them. Besides, the congress stopped expanding civil rights decades ago. Now it only comes from the Supreme Court, which is unaffected by more federalism. Congress could vote tomorrow to cement abortion as a right, or gay marriage as a right… but they choose not too. The cynic in me thinks that they choose not to so both sides can continue to raise money fear mongering about the Supreme Court.

rtpg 5y ago
States follow the Supreme Court's rulings, that is less guaranteed in a situation where there is less balance of power. There is no physical force preventing states from ignoring rulings (and of course in practice they do ignore shit, but politics happens at the courts as well). I agree 100% that Congress could cement abortion as a right tomorrow and should have a billion years ago. It's insulting to everyone that we have had to watch the degradation of rights through court rulings over time as congress shrugs its shoulders because they are afraid of having convictions. But I still think that if states had more power, we simply would have less civil rights across the board. States can already pass laws and guarantee rights at a state level, and many simply choose not to. It's all terrible right now, but I can only see things getting worse if you just say "let's have the states do stuff", based on the past ... I don't know, century of American history. Just how I see things at the moment though, and I will freely admit I am biased to believe my theory and haven't tried to research much to the contrary.
- nostromo 5y ago
  I get what you’re saying. But remember laws like DOMA that were passed not very long ago that were explicitly written to prevent states from expanding rights. And almost all recent civil rights advancements have not come from congress but the courts. Since the Civil Rights Act, the trend is that congress and the executive narrows rights and the court broadens them.
watwut 5y ago
> Besides, the congress stopped expanding civil rights decades ago. Now it only comes from the Supreme Court, which is unaffected by more federalism. Supreme Court is not expanding civil rights.