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Opposition to homosexuality and racial integration did not disappear in America, but they substantially waned. Even the minority of people that privately hold o

Opposition to homosexuality and racial integration did not disappear in America, but they substantially waned. Even the minority of people that privately hold opposite sentiments, they will not express them publicly for fear not just of public condemnation and private sanction but also legal liability. Consider that in 2008, a majority of the country opposed gay marriage, but in 2022, a majority support and it is considered completely unacceptable to advocate for a return to the old order. That's what victory looks like. Consider too that in 1990, a majority of the country was still against interracial marriage. Today, those same people would probably deny they ever felt that way, maybe even convincing themselves of that lie. That's what winning looks like. Today, a biological male can win women's sports competitions and a five year old can be recognized as transsexual. A robust majority of the country opposes it, but everyone outside of Republican electoral politics[1] is scared to put their face to any opposition to it. This is starting to look like final victory. [1] And even then, many Republican governors have vetoed bills that would ban this.

tempestn 5y ago
FWIW, I agree that 4-5 year old transgender kids are something that strike most people as absurd. That is, unless they know some transgender people and talk to them about their experiences. I have a couple of close friends who are trans, and know several others (including a good friend of my son's in elementary school). All of them describing knowing their true gender with just as much certainty as you or I know ours from about age 4. Obviously that's just a second-hand anecdote, but it's enough for me to be confident that it is extremely common for trans people to experience strong gender dysphoria from essentially as soon as they become aware of the concept of their own gender. There is also research that shows suicide rates for transgender people are far higher than the general population—except for those who receive acceptance for their gender identity from childhood, in which case the difference is drastically reduced. And that's not hard for me to believe. Try imagining yourself in that position. You're a young boy, but for some reason you're in a girl's body. You know that's not right, but no one believes you, and instead they pressure you to act the part of someone you're not, and imply (or outright state) that there's something wrong with you for feeling otherwise. That's got to be a tough life. Contrast that with the same initial condition: you're a boy in a girl's body. But instead your parents and other people you trust understand and tell you that's OK and there are lots of other people experiencing the same thing, and if you're confident you want to live as a boy (or vice-versa the whole thing, obviously) then of course you can do that and they'll help. Sounds a hell of a lot better to me.
- legalcorrection 5y ago
  I really appreciate the substantive comment. I disagree, but I don't think it's worth arguing about here. My point really doesn't have anything to do with the merits or demerits of young childhood gender transitions. Fact is, it's a position held by a minority, but the majority is powerless to do anything about it because they are absolutely terrified of the left's political power. They're afraid to even say something about it. Certain political groups are getting close to completely transcending the liberal democratic truce.
  - tempestn 5y ago
    And I appreciate that, especially in the broader context of the article we're commenting on! I agree with your broader point that there are topics in our society where one might be ostracized for expressing or even exploring a view outside a certain consensus, even if it might be one held by many people. And obviously that does make good faith communication difficult. Of course some might say that certain views are so vile they shouldn't be given any consideration. Something like expressing overt racial slurs for instance. And I can see the argument that it's beneficial for society to shun those who express such things. But it can certainly be taken too far, and often is. And the effect is even more pronounced I think within a political coalition than across the spectrum, because there's even more pressure to conform to the consensus view. I realize the gender transition thing was beside your main point; you just seemed like a reasonable person with a differing view who might be open to my perspective there. I wouldn't expect you to change your mind based on an anecdote from a random stranger, but I hope you'll keep it in mind. FWIW I'm more sympathetic to your other example: trans athletes are a difficult issue IMO. In general I wouldn't want transgender people to be deprived of any of the rights anyone else of the same gender would have. I think bathroom bans are ridiculous and cruel for instance. But in the context of sport, there is also a legitimate concern regarding fairness for other athletes. I honestly don't know what the best outcome is there, but I do think it's something reasonable people should be able to discuss without being vilified.
- tome 5y ago
  > All of them describing knowing their true gender with just as much certainty as you or I know ours from about age 4 Did you? I don’t recall “knowing” my truer gender from age 4. That’s something that I took years to grow into, and didn’t become a question at the fore of my mind until teenage years.

tempestn 5y ago

FWIW, I agree that 4-5 year old transgender kids are something that strike most people as absurd. That is, unless they know some transgender people and talk to them about their experiences. I have a couple of close friends who are trans, and know several others (including a good friend of my son's in elementary school). All of them describing knowing their true gender with just as much certainty as you or I know ours from about age 4. Obviously that's just a second-hand anecdote, but it's enough for me to be confident that it is extremely common for trans people to experience strong gender dysphoria from essentially as soon as they become aware of the concept of their own gender. There is also research that shows suicide rates for transgender people are far higher than the general population—except for those who receive acceptance for their gender identity from childhood, in which case the difference is drastically reduced. And that's not hard for me to believe. Try imagining yourself in that position. You're a young boy, but for some reason you're in a girl's body. You know that's not right, but no one believes you, and instead they pressure you to act the part of someone you're not, and imply (or outright state) that there's something wrong with you for feeling otherwise. That's got to be a tough life. Contrast that with the same initial condition: you're a boy in a girl's body. But instead your parents and other people you trust understand and tell you that's OK and there are lots of other people experiencing the same thing, and if you're confident you want to live as a boy (or vice-versa the whole thing, obviously) then of course you can do that and they'll help. Sounds a hell of a lot better to me.

legalcorrection 5y ago
I really appreciate the substantive comment. I disagree, but I don't think it's worth arguing about here. My point really doesn't have anything to do with the merits or demerits of young childhood gender transitions. Fact is, it's a position held by a minority, but the majority is powerless to do anything about it because they are absolutely terrified of the left's political power. They're afraid to even say something about it. Certain political groups are getting close to completely transcending the liberal democratic truce.
- tempestn 5y ago
  And I appreciate that, especially in the broader context of the article we're commenting on! I agree with your broader point that there are topics in our society where one might be ostracized for expressing or even exploring a view outside a certain consensus, even if it might be one held by many people. And obviously that does make good faith communication difficult. Of course some might say that certain views are so vile they shouldn't be given any consideration. Something like expressing overt racial slurs for instance. And I can see the argument that it's beneficial for society to shun those who express such things. But it can certainly be taken too far, and often is. And the effect is even more pronounced I think within a political coalition than across the spectrum, because there's even more pressure to conform to the consensus view. I realize the gender transition thing was beside your main point; you just seemed like a reasonable person with a differing view who might be open to my perspective there. I wouldn't expect you to change your mind based on an anecdote from a random stranger, but I hope you'll keep it in mind. FWIW I'm more sympathetic to your other example: trans athletes are a difficult issue IMO. In general I wouldn't want transgender people to be deprived of any of the rights anyone else of the same gender would have. I think bathroom bans are ridiculous and cruel for instance. But in the context of sport, there is also a legitimate concern regarding fairness for other athletes. I honestly don't know what the best outcome is there, but I do think it's something reasonable people should be able to discuss without being vilified.
tome 5y ago
> All of them describing knowing their true gender with just as much certainty as you or I know ours from about age 4 Did you? I don’t recall “knowing” my truer gender from age 4. That’s something that I took years to grow into, and didn’t become a question at the fore of my mind until teenage years.