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The liberal-conservative dichotomy is a modern invention that only came about sometime during the 60's. There have been various parties and coalitions within pa

The liberal-conservative dichotomy is a modern invention that only came about sometime during the 60's. There have been various parties and coalitions within parties throughout American history.

legalcorrection 5y ago
The battle isn't always being fought in interparty electoral competition. The left-wing project to replace all traditional hierarchy with radical egalitarianism has been in motion in Western society since at least the French Revolution, with some elements appearing in the American Revolution and Protestant Reformation. The right-wing project to preserve the traditional order has been around for longer, at least since the merchant classes threatened the power of the old aristocracy. This conflict has been sometimes dominated and drowned out by more particular, parochial, and pressing disagreements. The US, and to a lesser extent, England, through liberal democracy were able to contain the jacobin forces much more than societies on the continent were. But a 100 year streak of leftist victories has basically put them on the cusp of completely eradicating the old order. Even today, a conservative's mindset has little in common with the thoughts of a monarchist from the late 18th century. Those ways of thinking have been eradicated by political force. Some have tried to revive it, but it is just a faint echo, like trying to recreate a song from a critic's review of it.
tempestn 5y ago
I'm not sure about that. Polarization in the United States has certainly ebbed and flowed over time, but if you study history, there has been a rough liberal-conservative dichotomy in nearly every society I can think of, going back at least hundreds of years. There's a great podcast actually, Revolutions, by Mike Duncan - it devotes a season to each of several famous historical revolutions. Currently it's in the last season, on the Russian revolution, which is particularly interesting in the present day, as it plants the seeds for modern Russia. But given that these revolutions span centuries, it's really striking how many commonalities they have, and the echoes you can hear in modern discourse. For example, liberals are generally agitating for greater democratic freedoms, or in non-democratic societies, at least freedom from oppression. Conservatives are, as the name suggests, generally dissatisfied with the pace of change, and in favor of maintaining current power structures. Also, revolutions are generally presaged by exactly the kind of breakdowns in communication described here. Increased polarization, unwillingness to give the 'other side' any kind of a political win, even if it's beneficial for everyone, etc. So yeah, while I could see that digital communication might have been a catalyst for our current situation, for the most part this all looks very familiar. And as the article describes, the likely result doesn't look good.
- beaconstudios 5y ago
  There's also reactionaries who want to run the clock back - traditionally these would take the form of loyalists after a monarchy was already deposed, like the Bonapartists in France.

The liberal-conservative dichotomy is a modern invention that only came about sometime during the 60's. There have been various parties and coalitions within parties throughout American history.

legalcorrection 5y ago

The battle isn't always being fought in interparty electoral competition. The left-wing project to replace all traditional hierarchy with radical egalitarianism has been in motion in Western society since at least the French Revolution, with some elements appearing in the American Revolution and Protestant Reformation. The right-wing project to preserve the traditional order has been around for longer, at least since the merchant classes threatened the power of the old aristocracy. This conflict has been sometimes dominated and drowned out by more particular, parochial, and pressing disagreements. The US, and to a lesser extent, England, through liberal democracy were able to contain the jacobin forces much more than societies on the continent were. But a 100 year streak of leftist victories has basically put them on the cusp of completely eradicating the old order. Even today, a conservative's mindset has little in common with the thoughts of a monarchist from the late 18th century. Those ways of thinking have been eradicated by political force. Some have tried to revive it, but it is just a faint echo, like trying to recreate a song from a critic's review of it.

tempestn 5y ago

I'm not sure about that. Polarization in the United States has certainly ebbed and flowed over time, but if you study history, there has been a rough liberal-conservative dichotomy in nearly every society I can think of, going back at least hundreds of years. There's a great podcast actually, Revolutions, by Mike Duncan - it devotes a season to each of several famous historical revolutions. Currently it's in the last season, on the Russian revolution, which is particularly interesting in the present day, as it plants the seeds for modern Russia. But given that these revolutions span centuries, it's really striking how many commonalities they have, and the echoes you can hear in modern discourse. For example, liberals are generally agitating for greater democratic freedoms, or in non-democratic societies, at least freedom from oppression. Conservatives are, as the name suggests, generally dissatisfied with the pace of change, and in favor of maintaining current power structures. Also, revolutions are generally presaged by exactly the kind of breakdowns in communication described here. Increased polarization, unwillingness to give the 'other side' any kind of a political win, even if it's beneficial for everyone, etc. So yeah, while I could see that digital communication might have been a catalyst for our current situation, for the most part this all looks very familiar. And as the article describes, the likely result doesn't look good.

beaconstudios 5y ago
There's also reactionaries who want to run the clock back - traditionally these would take the form of loyalists after a monarchy was already deposed, like the Bonapartists in France.