5 ms·

This review is misses for me due to these two quotes: > I’m using this Macbook almost exclusively with the lid closed, with a USB-C adapter to connect my keybo

by mch82 5y ago

This review is misses for me due to these two quotes: > I’m using this Macbook almost exclusively with the lid closed, with a USB-C adapter to connect my keyboard/mouse/monitor. > However, that keyboard doesn’t have the Option (⌥) or Command (⌘) keys like on my Macbook. The reviewer isn’t using the built in webcam, Touch ID, trackpad, or the Mac keyboard layout! Why even have a Mac with that setup? Opening the lid solves the webcam issues. Using the trackpad gestures solves the desktop switching issues. Using the Mac keyboard solves the keyboard command issues. And, yeah, get a USB-C dock for those ports (or the latest laptop that added them back).

ARandomerDude 5y ago
I typically use my MBP on a dock with the lid closed too, because: 1. I like Linux and Mac is essentially Linix/BSD that "just works." After years of putting up with annoying bugs in Ubuntu and Manjaro, Mac has been a breath of fresh air. 2. I sometimes need Mac only tooling like XCode. 3. I don't like the glare on the MBP monitor. I have a Mac keyboard, so the command key isn't an issue.
- mmis1000 5y ago
  Using windows keyboard on mac is totally fine I think. How is it a big deal if just two key switched. And the 2016 buildin keyboard is just bad. Lack of feedback and having low travel distance. You are going to destroy your own finger if you actually decide to use it as your daily driver. I think it is probably even worse than a $30 keyboard you can pick from random shop in case of ergonomics. How come apple designed a thing like this. (Fortunately they regretted it now)
bliteben 5y ago
I don't see why you can't like a mouse if you like MACs. Also if you like a mouse that you have to turn upside down and can't use while charging you are just a glutton for punishment. USB-C mice are not really a thing, so you have to use a Bluetooth mouse instead of using a mouse you may have had for the last 10 years and replaced the omron switches in several times. All this for what arrogance?
- ddingus 5y ago
  Oh I don't know about that. I just put a little adapter on the end of the cable of the crappy three-button Mouse I've used for years and it worked fine. I also happen to really like the little crappy mouse that comes with the Raspberry Pi computer. That one works with the same adapter. I just leave it on the end of the cable. Edit: I generally like little crappy lightweight mice with good Glides and good resolution. I don't care much past that and if it has three buttons and a wheel I'm good. And I'll plug in mouse in when I really want a mouse. For a lot of tasks the trackpad on the Mac is fantastic. I really love using the thing.
- sneak 5y ago
  Mac is not an acronym, it's short for Macintosh. MAC stands for Mandatory Access Control or Media Access Control (as in ethernet hwaddr).
  - eyelidlessness 5y ago
    I wish I had a MACRO to ignore this completely unhelpful correction
  - Toutouxc 5y ago
    I'd swear that writing Macs as MACs (or MAC's) is a shibboleth of people who don't like Macs.
    - bliteben 5y ago
      i had it as Mac's but changed it because I knew something offended people honestly didn't know which
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
eyelidlessness 5y ago
For what it’s worth, I’ve alternated between mechanical keyboards with and without “true” Mac layouts, and it’s sort of a wash. By “true” I mean: meta keys are in the right place by default, send the right signals by default (or provide a built in affordance for same), and the numeric keypad either has the same shape or doesn’t exist. Pros of “true” Mac layouts: - They really are what you expect if you’re a Mac user. No really that’s it. Cons: - The only vendor actively making them is (last I checked) Matias. - 100% of the Matias products I’ve bought have failed on me in the same way: switches get a spec of dust in them, then intermittently flip between no response and being stuck. This doesn’t matter if you’re using their custom switches or third party ones. - They’re positioned and priced as vanity products. Which would be fine if they actually worked for a reasonable period of time. I’m a Mac user after all. Pros of everything else that actually tries to support Mac users: - They mostly work according to your expectations if you know which expectations to have. - If you buy a quality keyboard and mind the reviews, you can reasonably expect it to last. - These products increasingly offer more than a keycap swap and a shrug. It’s not uncommon to find a built in switch to use macOS defaults for meta key positions. They size (more on this) meta keys to be relatively comfortable for Mac and non-Mac layouts. This is huge if you’ve developed muscle memory for the cmd key. - They don’t ship unmappable key signals like the context menu key by default. - Even if you need to swap meta keys, that’s trivial in macOS. Cons: - If you care about a number keypad, it’s probably going to be wRoNg. It sucks. I hate it every day. - No kidding the size of meta keys might throw you off. Otherwise nbd. - If you do get one with a context menu key get ready to throw your entire computer in the nearest body of water. Honorable mention: you can still get Apple Extended keyboards and ADB adapters. They’re a great middle ground! They’re much less likely to fail and much more likely to have a Mac keyboard layout you’ll benefit from. Support your local electronics recycling reseller!
rubyist5eva 5y ago
> However, that keyboard doesn’t have the Option (⌥) or Command (⌘) keys like on my Macbook. What? Option is literally just the "alt" key, and Command is the "windows" key - I haven't seen a keyboard without a Windows key in almost twenty years, maybe more. There's also a UI to switch the Alt/Opt and Win/CMD keys so the functionality is on the same placement as the laptop keyboard (alt and win are switched).

by mch82 5y ago

ARandomerDude 5y ago

I typically use my MBP on a dock with the lid closed too, because: 1. I like Linux and Mac is essentially Linix/BSD that "just works." After years of putting up with annoying bugs in Ubuntu and Manjaro, Mac has been a breath of fresh air. 2. I sometimes need Mac only tooling like XCode. 3. I don't like the glare on the MBP monitor. I have a Mac keyboard, so the command key isn't an issue.

mmis1000 5y ago
Using windows keyboard on mac is totally fine I think. How is it a big deal if just two key switched. And the 2016 buildin keyboard is just bad. Lack of feedback and having low travel distance. You are going to destroy your own finger if you actually decide to use it as your daily driver. I think it is probably even worse than a $30 keyboard you can pick from random shop in case of ergonomics. How come apple designed a thing like this. (Fortunately they regretted it now)

bliteben 5y ago

I don't see why you can't like a mouse if you like MACs. Also if you like a mouse that you have to turn upside down and can't use while charging you are just a glutton for punishment. USB-C mice are not really a thing, so you have to use a Bluetooth mouse instead of using a mouse you may have had for the last 10 years and replaced the omron switches in several times. All this for what arrogance?

ddingus 5y ago
Oh I don't know about that. I just put a little adapter on the end of the cable of the crappy three-button Mouse I've used for years and it worked fine. I also happen to really like the little crappy mouse that comes with the Raspberry Pi computer. That one works with the same adapter. I just leave it on the end of the cable. Edit: I generally like little crappy lightweight mice with good Glides and good resolution. I don't care much past that and if it has three buttons and a wheel I'm good. And I'll plug in mouse in when I really want a mouse. For a lot of tasks the trackpad on the Mac is fantastic. I really love using the thing.
sneak 5y ago
Mac is not an acronym, it's short for Macintosh. MAC stands for Mandatory Access Control or Media Access Control (as in ethernet hwaddr).
- eyelidlessness 5y ago
  I wish I had a MACRO to ignore this completely unhelpful correction
- Toutouxc 5y ago
  I'd swear that writing Macs as MACs (or MAC's) is a shibboleth of people who don't like Macs.
  - bliteben 5y ago
    i had it as Mac's but changed it because I knew something offended people honestly didn't know which

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

eyelidlessness 5y ago

For what it’s worth, I’ve alternated between mechanical keyboards with and without “true” Mac layouts, and it’s sort of a wash. By “true” I mean: meta keys are in the right place by default, send the right signals by default (or provide a built in affordance for same), and the numeric keypad either has the same shape or doesn’t exist. Pros of “true” Mac layouts: - They really are what you expect if you’re a Mac user. No really that’s it. Cons: - The only vendor actively making them is (last I checked) Matias. - 100% of the Matias products I’ve bought have failed on me in the same way: switches get a spec of dust in them, then intermittently flip between no response and being stuck. This doesn’t matter if you’re using their custom switches or third party ones. - They’re positioned and priced as vanity products. Which would be fine if they actually worked for a reasonable period of time. I’m a Mac user after all. Pros of everything else that actually tries to support Mac users: - They mostly work according to your expectations if you know which expectations to have. - If you buy a quality keyboard and mind the reviews, you can reasonably expect it to last. - These products increasingly offer more than a keycap swap and a shrug. It’s not uncommon to find a built in switch to use macOS defaults for meta key positions. They size (more on this) meta keys to be relatively comfortable for Mac and non-Mac layouts. This is huge if you’ve developed muscle memory for the cmd key. - They don’t ship unmappable key signals like the context menu key by default. - Even if you need to swap meta keys, that’s trivial in macOS. Cons: - If you care about a number keypad, it’s probably going to be wRoNg. It sucks. I hate it every day. - No kidding the size of meta keys might throw you off. Otherwise nbd. - If you do get one with a context menu key get ready to throw your entire computer in the nearest body of water. Honorable mention: you can still get Apple Extended keyboards and ADB adapters. They’re a great middle ground! They’re much less likely to fail and much more likely to have a Mac keyboard layout you’ll benefit from. Support your local electronics recycling reseller!

rubyist5eva 5y ago

> However, that keyboard doesn’t have the Option (⌥) or Command (⌘) keys like on my Macbook. What? Option is literally just the "alt" key, and Command is the "windows" key - I haven't seen a keyboard without a Windows key in almost twenty years, maybe more. There's also a UI to switch the Alt/Opt and Win/CMD keys so the functionality is on the same placement as the laptop keyboard (alt and win are switched).