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Canada literally had to suspend the charter and due process by enacting the emergency measures act, which is unprecedented amongst western countries. Why would

Canada literally had to suspend the charter and due process by enacting the emergency measures act, which is unprecedented amongst western countries. Why would the government do that if no one supported them anyways? Your insurrection did not kill 5 people by the way. I get that there's a weird urge to make that event some sort of insanely important historical moment but it doesn't mean you have to make up dead people. Ironically, from a neutral outsider view, what happened on the 6th of January can also be described as "a bunch of morons thinking they could get their way and being absolutely obnoxious". It doesn't look that way when you are knees deep in american partisan culture wars, but Americans have a tendency to think that anything that happens in the US is exceptional and unique.

mathlover2 5y ago
> Canada literally had to suspend the charter and due process by enacting the emergency measures act, which is unprecedented amongst western countries. Why would the government do that if no one supported them anyways? Probably because they didn't have to deal with a large number of numpties doing that before. > Your insurrection did not kill 5 people by the way. There were five deaths. One was from gunshot and the others were from other reasons. The fact that the deaths occurred among the insurrectionists doesn't change the fact that people actually died as a result of what happened, which from what I can tell is more than can be said about the numbskull protests in Ottawa. > Ironically, from a neutral outsider view, what happened on the 6th of January can also be described as "a bunch of morons thinking they could get their way and being absolutely obnoxious". Was some high-profile Tory premier instigating the protests in Ottawa with a rally there? Were his own officials involved in the planning? Was there a large number of people breaching the Canadian parliament building while it was in session? Were extreme right MP's feeding information to convoy organizers on where Trudeau was? Because while that's not what happened in Canada, it's what happened in the US a year ago. I get what you are saying about Americans thinking anything in the US must be exceptional. I've seen that before myself, especially with certain members of my family. But there is a difference between idiot protesters occupying a capital city's downtown and having to be forced to leave and an attempted self-coup by an outgoing head of state.
- rootsudo 5y ago
  >Probably because they didn't have to deal with a large number of numpties doing that before. So, the government can suspend rights of the people, while they are using those rights to protest? Is it only okay when the government does it if you "agree" with it? Convenient. That's not a good excuse, or reason - the government willy nilly choosing to enforce and invalidate it's own restrictions and human based rights based on "political feeling." >There were five deaths. One was from gunshot and the others were from other reasons. The fact that the deaths occurred among the insurrectionists doesn't change the fact that people actually died as a result of what happened, which from what I can tell is more than can be said about the numbskull protests in Ottawa. Stroke (Potentially Unrelated), Heart Attack (Potentially Unrelated), Crushed, Head Trauma (Police Officer), Shot. Context matters - https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/11/us/who-died-in-capitol-building-attack.html https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/11/us/who-died-in-capitol-bu... While not supporting the insurrectionists/protestors, I still do not see any mention of other riots that happened during 2020 which, IMO were far more deadlier, at 25 from direct physical violence on both sides - the protesters and law enforcement. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/oct/31/americans-killed-protests-political-unrest-acled https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/oct/31/americans-kill...
  - wrycoder 5y ago
    It turned out that the police officer died from natural causes, not head trauma.
- watwut 5y ago
  > Ironically, from a neutral outsider view, what happened on the 6th of January can also be described as "a bunch of morons thinking they could get their way and being absolutely obnoxious". Pretty much any coup attempt in history can be described like that. You can insult those people or underplay attempt to overthrow election as "being obnoxious" pretty much always. That does not lowers significance of it.
tcmart14 5y ago
> Canada literally had to suspend the charter and due process by enacting the emergency measures act, which is unprecedented amongst western countries This is not totally true. [1] https://www.gilderlehrman.org/history-resources/spotlight-primary-source/proclamation-suspension-habeas-corpus-1862 https://www.gilderlehrman.org/history-resources/spotlight-pr... And of course there are others. The US has quiet a bit of history around suspending rights. This is the issue I have with these kinds of statements of, the sky is falling, this hasn't happened before. A co-worker did the same with masks. Masks mandate are the most egregious thing the US government has ever done. But apparently putting people born and raised in the US with Japanese ancestry in camps was less egregious than masks? States banned the use of the German language? The house unamerican activities committee ruined the lives of people by dragging them infront of congress for character assassination?
- mardifoufs 5y ago
  > > Canada literally had to suspend the charter and due process by enacting the emergency measures act, which is unprecedented amongst western countries > This is not totally true. > [1] https://www.gilderlehrman.org/history-resources/spotlight-pr https://www.gilderlehrman.org/history-resources/spotlight-pr... > And of course there are others. The US has quiet a bit of history around suspending rights. > This is the issue I have with these kinds of statements of, the sky is falling, this hasn't happened before. A co-worker did the same with masks. Masks mandate are the most egregious thing the US government has ever done. But apparently putting people born and raised in the US with Japanese ancestry in camps was less egregious than masks? States banned the use of the German language? The house unamerican activities committee ruined the lives of people by dragging them infront of congress for character assassination? If you had to go back to 1862 you are proving my point. Canada didn't even exist then. I guess I should have specified "never happened post ww2". I totally agree with your second point, I'm not saying that the measures were worse. The suspension of rights is though; the issue isn't really the mask/vaccine mandate it was the reaction to the protests against them.
  - tcmart14 5y ago
    You generalized to "western countries." I don't think Canada is the only "western country." That is the main issue. It could be this was a first for Canada (not Canadian so I am not aware of a lot of it's history), but definitely not for western countries in general.

mathlover2 5y ago

> Canada literally had to suspend the charter and due process by enacting the emergency measures act, which is unprecedented amongst western countries. Why would the government do that if no one supported them anyways? Probably because they didn't have to deal with a large number of numpties doing that before. > Your insurrection did not kill 5 people by the way. There were five deaths. One was from gunshot and the others were from other reasons. The fact that the deaths occurred among the insurrectionists doesn't change the fact that people actually died as a result of what happened, which from what I can tell is more than can be said about the numbskull protests in Ottawa. > Ironically, from a neutral outsider view, what happened on the 6th of January can also be described as "a bunch of morons thinking they could get their way and being absolutely obnoxious". Was some high-profile Tory premier instigating the protests in Ottawa with a rally there? Were his own officials involved in the planning? Was there a large number of people breaching the Canadian parliament building while it was in session? Were extreme right MP's feeding information to convoy organizers on where Trudeau was? Because while that's not what happened in Canada, it's what happened in the US a year ago. I get what you are saying about Americans thinking anything in the US must be exceptional. I've seen that before myself, especially with certain members of my family. But there is a difference between idiot protesters occupying a capital city's downtown and having to be forced to leave and an attempted self-coup by an outgoing head of state.

rootsudo 5y ago
>Probably because they didn't have to deal with a large number of numpties doing that before. So, the government can suspend rights of the people, while they are using those rights to protest? Is it only okay when the government does it if you "agree" with it? Convenient. That's not a good excuse, or reason - the government willy nilly choosing to enforce and invalidate it's own restrictions and human based rights based on "political feeling." >There were five deaths. One was from gunshot and the others were from other reasons. The fact that the deaths occurred among the insurrectionists doesn't change the fact that people actually died as a result of what happened, which from what I can tell is more than can be said about the numbskull protests in Ottawa. Stroke (Potentially Unrelated), Heart Attack (Potentially Unrelated), Crushed, Head Trauma (Police Officer), Shot. Context matters - https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/11/us/who-died-in-capitol-building-attack.html https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/11/us/who-died-in-capitol-bu... While not supporting the insurrectionists/protestors, I still do not see any mention of other riots that happened during 2020 which, IMO were far more deadlier, at 25 from direct physical violence on both sides - the protesters and law enforcement. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/oct/31/americans-killed-protests-political-unrest-acled https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/oct/31/americans-kill...
- wrycoder 5y ago
  It turned out that the police officer died from natural causes, not head trauma.
watwut 5y ago
> Ironically, from a neutral outsider view, what happened on the 6th of January can also be described as "a bunch of morons thinking they could get their way and being absolutely obnoxious". Pretty much any coup attempt in history can be described like that. You can insult those people or underplay attempt to overthrow election as "being obnoxious" pretty much always. That does not lowers significance of it.

tcmart14 5y ago

> Canada literally had to suspend the charter and due process by enacting the emergency measures act, which is unprecedented amongst western countries This is not totally true. [1] https://www.gilderlehrman.org/history-resources/spotlight-primary-source/proclamation-suspension-habeas-corpus-1862 https://www.gilderlehrman.org/history-resources/spotlight-pr... And of course there are others. The US has quiet a bit of history around suspending rights. This is the issue I have with these kinds of statements of, the sky is falling, this hasn't happened before. A co-worker did the same with masks. Masks mandate are the most egregious thing the US government has ever done. But apparently putting people born and raised in the US with Japanese ancestry in camps was less egregious than masks? States banned the use of the German language? The house unamerican activities committee ruined the lives of people by dragging them infront of congress for character assassination?

mardifoufs 5y ago
> > Canada literally had to suspend the charter and due process by enacting the emergency measures act, which is unprecedented amongst western countries > This is not totally true. > [1] https://www.gilderlehrman.org/history-resources/spotlight-pr https://www.gilderlehrman.org/history-resources/spotlight-pr... > And of course there are others. The US has quiet a bit of history around suspending rights. > This is the issue I have with these kinds of statements of, the sky is falling, this hasn't happened before. A co-worker did the same with masks. Masks mandate are the most egregious thing the US government has ever done. But apparently putting people born and raised in the US with Japanese ancestry in camps was less egregious than masks? States banned the use of the German language? The house unamerican activities committee ruined the lives of people by dragging them infront of congress for character assassination? If you had to go back to 1862 you are proving my point. Canada didn't even exist then. I guess I should have specified "never happened post ww2". I totally agree with your second point, I'm not saying that the measures were worse. The suspension of rights is though; the issue isn't really the mask/vaccine mandate it was the reaction to the protests against them.
- tcmart14 5y ago
  You generalized to "western countries." I don't think Canada is the only "western country." That is the main issue. It could be this was a first for Canada (not Canadian so I am not aware of a lot of it's history), but definitely not for western countries in general.