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It isn't immune, but it certainly hasn't gotten to the point it has in the US. We had a failed insurrection two years ago that killed 5 people. The truck convoy

It isn't immune, but it certainly hasn't gotten to the point it has in the US. We had a failed insurrection two years ago that killed 5 people. The truck convoy was a bunch of morons thinking they could get their way by going to Ottawa and being absolutely obnoxious --- and ultimately failing because no one wanted to put up with their shit. Social media is a factor. It's not the main factor, and Haidt's weird focus on it rather than deeply entrenched and growing economic disparities, lack of education in the US, the rise of the religious right, and other factors is in my view kinda silly.

mardifoufs 4y ago
Canada literally had to suspend the charter and due process by enacting the emergency measures act, which is unprecedented amongst western countries. Why would the government do that if no one supported them anyways? Your insurrection did not kill 5 people by the way. I get that there's a weird urge to make that event some sort of insanely important historical moment but it doesn't mean you have to make up dead people. Ironically, from a neutral outsider view, what happened on the 6th of January can also be described as "a bunch of morons thinking they could get their way and being absolutely obnoxious". It doesn't look that way when you are knees deep in american partisan culture wars, but Americans have a tendency to think that anything that happens in the US is exceptional and unique.
- mathlover2 4y ago
  > Canada literally had to suspend the charter and due process by enacting the emergency measures act, which is unprecedented amongst western countries. Why would the government do that if no one supported them anyways? Probably because they didn't have to deal with a large number of numpties doing that before. > Your insurrection did not kill 5 people by the way. There were five deaths. One was from gunshot and the others were from other reasons. The fact that the deaths occurred among the insurrectionists doesn't change the fact that people actually died as a result of what happened, which from what I can tell is more than can be said about the numbskull protests in Ottawa. > Ironically, from a neutral outsider view, what happened on the 6th of January can also be described as "a bunch of morons thinking they could get their way and being absolutely obnoxious". Was some high-profile Tory premier instigating the protests in Ottawa with a rally there? Were his own officials involved in the planning? Was there a large number of people breaching the Canadian parliament building while it was in session? Were extreme right MP's feeding information to convoy organizers on where Trudeau was? Because while that's not what happened in Canada, it's what happened in the US a year ago. I get what you are saying about Americans thinking anything in the US must be exceptional. I've seen that before myself, especially with certain members of my family. But there is a difference between idiot protesters occupying a capital city's downtown and having to be forced to leave and an attempted self-coup by an outgoing head of state.
  - rootsudo 4y ago
    >Probably because they didn't have to deal with a large number of numpties doing that before. So, the government can suspend rights of the people, while they are using those rights to protest? Is it only okay when the government does it if you "agree" with it? Convenient. That's not a good excuse, or reason - the government willy nilly choosing to enforce and invalidate it's own restrictions and human based rights based on "political feeling." >There were five deaths. One was from gunshot and the others were from other reasons. The fact that the deaths occurred among the insurrectionists doesn't change the fact that people actually died as a result of what happened, which from what I can tell is more than can be said about the numbskull protests in Ottawa. Stroke (Potentially Unrelated), Heart Attack (Potentially Unrelated), Crushed, Head Trauma (Police Officer), Shot. Context matters - https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/11/us/who-died-in-capitol-building-attack.html https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/11/us/who-died-in-capitol-bu... While not supporting the insurrectionists/protestors, I still do not see any mention of other riots that happened during 2020 which, IMO were far more deadlier, at 25 from direct physical violence on both sides - the protesters and law enforcement. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/oct/31/americans-killed-protests-political-unrest-acled https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/oct/31/americans-kill...
    - wrycoder 4y ago
      It turned out that the police officer died from natural causes, not head trauma.
  - watwut 4y ago
    > Ironically, from a neutral outsider view, what happened on the 6th of January can also be described as "a bunch of morons thinking they could get their way and being absolutely obnoxious". Pretty much any coup attempt in history can be described like that. You can insult those people or underplay attempt to overthrow election as "being obnoxious" pretty much always. That does not lowers significance of it.
- tcmart14 4y ago
  > Canada literally had to suspend the charter and due process by enacting the emergency measures act, which is unprecedented amongst western countries This is not totally true. [1] https://www.gilderlehrman.org/history-resources/spotlight-primary-source/proclamation-suspension-habeas-corpus-1862 https://www.gilderlehrman.org/history-resources/spotlight-pr... And of course there are others. The US has quiet a bit of history around suspending rights. This is the issue I have with these kinds of statements of, the sky is falling, this hasn't happened before. A co-worker did the same with masks. Masks mandate are the most egregious thing the US government has ever done. But apparently putting people born and raised in the US with Japanese ancestry in camps was less egregious than masks? States banned the use of the German language? The house unamerican activities committee ruined the lives of people by dragging them infront of congress for character assassination?
  - mardifoufs 4y ago
    > > Canada literally had to suspend the charter and due process by enacting the emergency measures act, which is unprecedented amongst western countries > This is not totally true. > [1] https://www.gilderlehrman.org/history-resources/spotlight-pr https://www.gilderlehrman.org/history-resources/spotlight-pr... > And of course there are others. The US has quiet a bit of history around suspending rights. > This is the issue I have with these kinds of statements of, the sky is falling, this hasn't happened before. A co-worker did the same with masks. Masks mandate are the most egregious thing the US government has ever done. But apparently putting people born and raised in the US with Japanese ancestry in camps was less egregious than masks? States banned the use of the German language? The house unamerican activities committee ruined the lives of people by dragging them infront of congress for character assassination? If you had to go back to 1862 you are proving my point. Canada didn't even exist then. I guess I should have specified "never happened post ww2". I totally agree with your second point, I'm not saying that the measures were worse. The suspension of rights is though; the issue isn't really the mask/vaccine mandate it was the reaction to the protests against them.
    - tcmart14 4y ago
      You generalized to "western countries." I don't think Canada is the only "western country." That is the main issue. It could be this was a first for Canada (not Canadian so I am not aware of a lot of it's history), but definitely not for western countries in general.
rootsudo 4y ago
I wonder what you think about other riots and events. You do know the history of the United States is one that supports insurrection (from the English Monarchy) and those rights are protected by the bill of rights? "Social media is a factor. It's not the main factor, and Haidt's weird focus on it rather than deeply entrenched and growing economic disparities, lack of education in the US, the rise of the religious right, and other factors is in my view kinda silly. " The newspaper and printing press back in the day was the social media equalizer. What about pamphlets like Common Sense by Thomas Paine? Was education more common back in those times than today? The average American in a day reads more information/published material than an "American" back in 18th century, or even 19th century. Was there no religious fueled political class back in the 17th century? Isn't the point of Freedom of Religion? Even going back, what about the availability of the Bible to the masses vs just the "educated" clergy. What system is better than the one now, where people are free to come together to support their own notions and beliefs? -- Reading your reply, and other generalized replies from other people with the same viewpoint is shocking. It feigns complete insight in the "other side" or that people can have different opinions but still come to the same conclusion or end goal. It is this type of post that creates a "THEM" narrative blame game. It shouldn't be an US vs THEM - or Me vs You. That's what makes Social Media so powerful, people are divided into their beliefs and opinions and then go seek people to re-enforce those those ideas because they are pushed from one extreme to another. It's the same with Pro Obesity groups, Pro Ana groups, Pro Sexual Fetish Groups, etc. It warps what was normal into a narrow individual experience. That's only possibly by the ease of entry of social media vs, what was essentially a web ring back 20 years ago and needing to know a bit of html to host a page on geocities.
- jgod 4y ago
  Doesn't it make you wonder what they would say about the Founding Fathers had they lost?
jkhdigital 4y ago
> a failed insurrection two years ago that killed 5 people. I’m not sure what’s nuttier, the actual event itself or the fact that people still call it an “insurrection”. Either way, you are doing a good job of (unwittingly?) providing evidence for your own points, I guess.
basisword 4y ago
>> We had a failed insurrection two years ago that killed 5 people. Every time I see this I just think it is peak “American exceptionalism”. You had a small group of red necks, who had what could barely be described as a riot, who walked into the government building and vandalised it a little. It was not an “insurrection”. That is language that was used specifically to create more division and fear.

mardifoufs 4y ago

Canada literally had to suspend the charter and due process by enacting the emergency measures act, which is unprecedented amongst western countries. Why would the government do that if no one supported them anyways? Your insurrection did not kill 5 people by the way. I get that there's a weird urge to make that event some sort of insanely important historical moment but it doesn't mean you have to make up dead people. Ironically, from a neutral outsider view, what happened on the 6th of January can also be described as "a bunch of morons thinking they could get their way and being absolutely obnoxious". It doesn't look that way when you are knees deep in american partisan culture wars, but Americans have a tendency to think that anything that happens in the US is exceptional and unique.

mathlover2 4y ago
> Canada literally had to suspend the charter and due process by enacting the emergency measures act, which is unprecedented amongst western countries. Why would the government do that if no one supported them anyways? Probably because they didn't have to deal with a large number of numpties doing that before. > Your insurrection did not kill 5 people by the way. There were five deaths. One was from gunshot and the others were from other reasons. The fact that the deaths occurred among the insurrectionists doesn't change the fact that people actually died as a result of what happened, which from what I can tell is more than can be said about the numbskull protests in Ottawa. > Ironically, from a neutral outsider view, what happened on the 6th of January can also be described as "a bunch of morons thinking they could get their way and being absolutely obnoxious". Was some high-profile Tory premier instigating the protests in Ottawa with a rally there? Were his own officials involved in the planning? Was there a large number of people breaching the Canadian parliament building while it was in session? Were extreme right MP's feeding information to convoy organizers on where Trudeau was? Because while that's not what happened in Canada, it's what happened in the US a year ago. I get what you are saying about Americans thinking anything in the US must be exceptional. I've seen that before myself, especially with certain members of my family. But there is a difference between idiot protesters occupying a capital city's downtown and having to be forced to leave and an attempted self-coup by an outgoing head of state.
- rootsudo 4y ago
  >Probably because they didn't have to deal with a large number of numpties doing that before. So, the government can suspend rights of the people, while they are using those rights to protest? Is it only okay when the government does it if you "agree" with it? Convenient. That's not a good excuse, or reason - the government willy nilly choosing to enforce and invalidate it's own restrictions and human based rights based on "political feeling." >There were five deaths. One was from gunshot and the others were from other reasons. The fact that the deaths occurred among the insurrectionists doesn't change the fact that people actually died as a result of what happened, which from what I can tell is more than can be said about the numbskull protests in Ottawa. Stroke (Potentially Unrelated), Heart Attack (Potentially Unrelated), Crushed, Head Trauma (Police Officer), Shot. Context matters - https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/11/us/who-died-in-capitol-building-attack.html https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/11/us/who-died-in-capitol-bu... While not supporting the insurrectionists/protestors, I still do not see any mention of other riots that happened during 2020 which, IMO were far more deadlier, at 25 from direct physical violence on both sides - the protesters and law enforcement. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/oct/31/americans-killed-protests-political-unrest-acled https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/oct/31/americans-kill...
  - wrycoder 4y ago
    It turned out that the police officer died from natural causes, not head trauma.
- watwut 4y ago
  > Ironically, from a neutral outsider view, what happened on the 6th of January can also be described as "a bunch of morons thinking they could get their way and being absolutely obnoxious". Pretty much any coup attempt in history can be described like that. You can insult those people or underplay attempt to overthrow election as "being obnoxious" pretty much always. That does not lowers significance of it.
tcmart14 4y ago
> Canada literally had to suspend the charter and due process by enacting the emergency measures act, which is unprecedented amongst western countries This is not totally true. [1] https://www.gilderlehrman.org/history-resources/spotlight-primary-source/proclamation-suspension-habeas-corpus-1862 https://www.gilderlehrman.org/history-resources/spotlight-pr... And of course there are others. The US has quiet a bit of history around suspending rights. This is the issue I have with these kinds of statements of, the sky is falling, this hasn't happened before. A co-worker did the same with masks. Masks mandate are the most egregious thing the US government has ever done. But apparently putting people born and raised in the US with Japanese ancestry in camps was less egregious than masks? States banned the use of the German language? The house unamerican activities committee ruined the lives of people by dragging them infront of congress for character assassination?
- mardifoufs 4y ago
  > > Canada literally had to suspend the charter and due process by enacting the emergency measures act, which is unprecedented amongst western countries > This is not totally true. > [1] https://www.gilderlehrman.org/history-resources/spotlight-pr https://www.gilderlehrman.org/history-resources/spotlight-pr... > And of course there are others. The US has quiet a bit of history around suspending rights. > This is the issue I have with these kinds of statements of, the sky is falling, this hasn't happened before. A co-worker did the same with masks. Masks mandate are the most egregious thing the US government has ever done. But apparently putting people born and raised in the US with Japanese ancestry in camps was less egregious than masks? States banned the use of the German language? The house unamerican activities committee ruined the lives of people by dragging them infront of congress for character assassination? If you had to go back to 1862 you are proving my point. Canada didn't even exist then. I guess I should have specified "never happened post ww2". I totally agree with your second point, I'm not saying that the measures were worse. The suspension of rights is though; the issue isn't really the mask/vaccine mandate it was the reaction to the protests against them.
  - tcmart14 4y ago
    You generalized to "western countries." I don't think Canada is the only "western country." That is the main issue. It could be this was a first for Canada (not Canadian so I am not aware of a lot of it's history), but definitely not for western countries in general.

rootsudo 4y ago

I wonder what you think about other riots and events. You do know the history of the United States is one that supports insurrection (from the English Monarchy) and those rights are protected by the bill of rights? "Social media is a factor. It's not the main factor, and Haidt's weird focus on it rather than deeply entrenched and growing economic disparities, lack of education in the US, the rise of the religious right, and other factors is in my view kinda silly. " The newspaper and printing press back in the day was the social media equalizer. What about pamphlets like Common Sense by Thomas Paine? Was education more common back in those times than today? The average American in a day reads more information/published material than an "American" back in 18th century, or even 19th century. Was there no religious fueled political class back in the 17th century? Isn't the point of Freedom of Religion? Even going back, what about the availability of the Bible to the masses vs just the "educated" clergy. What system is better than the one now, where people are free to come together to support their own notions and beliefs? -- Reading your reply, and other generalized replies from other people with the same viewpoint is shocking. It feigns complete insight in the "other side" or that people can have different opinions but still come to the same conclusion or end goal. It is this type of post that creates a "THEM" narrative blame game. It shouldn't be an US vs THEM - or Me vs You. That's what makes Social Media so powerful, people are divided into their beliefs and opinions and then go seek people to re-enforce those those ideas because they are pushed from one extreme to another. It's the same with Pro Obesity groups, Pro Ana groups, Pro Sexual Fetish Groups, etc. It warps what was normal into a narrow individual experience. That's only possibly by the ease of entry of social media vs, what was essentially a web ring back 20 years ago and needing to know a bit of html to host a page on geocities.

jgod 4y ago
Doesn't it make you wonder what they would say about the Founding Fathers had they lost?

jkhdigital 4y ago

> a failed insurrection two years ago that killed 5 people. I’m not sure what’s nuttier, the actual event itself or the fact that people still call it an “insurrection”. Either way, you are doing a good job of (unwittingly?) providing evidence for your own points, I guess.

basisword 4y ago

>> We had a failed insurrection two years ago that killed 5 people. Every time I see this I just think it is peak “American exceptionalism”. You had a small group of red necks, who had what could barely be described as a riot, who walked into the government building and vandalised it a little. It was not an “insurrection”. That is language that was used specifically to create more division and fear.