5 ms·

Someone needs to tell him about option-click on the maximize button. Most of these "rants" really just amount to: "this different OS doesn't work exactly the s

by teilo 4y ago

Someone needs to tell him about option-click on the maximize button. Most of these "rants" really just amount to: "this different OS doesn't work exactly the same way as the OS I am used to." That's why 3rd party utilities exist to give you the functionality you wish to have. That formula cuts both ways.

thiagocmoraes 4y ago
I've been using macs for 9 years and never knew about option+click. Granted I've been using apps for window management since forever as the native tools suck or are almost hidden.
- kitsunesoba 4y ago
  Just FYI, holding down modifiers to reveal additional functions is a common theme in macOS. In the Finder for example, try holding down option and shift while looking through menus for a few examples. Holding down option while clicking the close or minimize buttons in apps will also close or minimize all windows for that app.
  - guywhocodes 4y ago
    2 years into being forced to use them for work and this is the first time I even hear anyone mention this. Thanks!, I'll be checking it out first thing in the morning
jayd16 4y ago
This is Apple UX in a nutshell. Hidden power tools are not intuitive.
- Tagbert 4y ago
  In part it is about progressive complexity. The simple things are exposed, more complex options require extra effort to access. Certainly there are times when it would be nice to make it easier to discover the more advanced features but there will always be a tension between keeping defaults simple for new users and exposing advanced features for the more serious users. Often they do it correctly but sometimes there are misses.
- _aavaa_ 4y ago
  We can argue about them being intuitive or not, but at least they exist.
- lwkl 4y ago
  How is this Apple UX specific? Windows UX and Linux UX work the same way. I'd argue a lot of power user feature are more accessible on macOS than on Windows. The shortcuts and gestures for macOS can be found in the system settings and you can change the shortcuts. How are you supposed to find them on Windows? I think people see macOS as more intuitive because it doesn't offer as much customization and is relatively consistent compared to Windows. Also it doesn't have as many nested menus. The system settings on macOS go maybe three levels deep while on Windows you can go at least 5 or six levels deep if not more. Now guess which one will feel more intuitive? The downside is you have to install some third-party tools if you want some features. But I prefer that to a lot of bloat.
  - diffeomorphism 4y ago
    > How is this Apple UX specific? Windows UX and Linux UX work the same way. Meanwhile the post just below yours: "I have been using macs for 9 years and never knew ...". So, no. They don't. "Power user" things are much less discoverable on macs.
  - FeepingCreature 4y ago
    In KDE, you discover features by trawling the settings. :-) "[x] Enable FooBar mode" oh hey, this tool has a FooBar mode! In my experience, almost the first thing I do when trying a new program is having a look through the settings.
  - jayd16 4y ago
    >The shortcuts and gestures for macOS can be found in the system settings and you can change the shortcuts. Can they? Where can I find the shortcut to copy the current path in Finder?
josho 4y ago
Or double click on the window to perform the original Mac Zoom function.
stouset 4y ago
Or double-clicking the window chrome.
- olyjohn 4y ago
  That works... most of the time.
lemoncucumber 4y ago
I set up a custom "All Applications" keyboard shortcut for the Zoom command, it's really handy.
dont__panic 4y ago
Yep, as someone who's gotten really really dependent on app Exposé on macOS... it's hard for me to switch to a keyboard for things I'd rather do on the trackpad! I do have to agree, though, that macOS window management can feel a bit clunky using a mouse and keyboard. That's a user story that the macOS UI/UX team ought to look into, it wouldn't be that hard to create some decent bindings in the OS itself.
darkteflon 4y ago
Absolutely - these ranty invectives are so tedious. The idea that something is fundamentally broken because it doesn’t work the way you expect it to. I struggle through each of my Windows sessions despite having used Windows since the 80s and having built probably more than 10 PCs over the past 30 years. I don’t blame Windows for that. I daily drive MacOS and that’s what I’m used to. That’s a me problem, not a Windows problem.
- agentgumshoe 4y ago
  These responses are also tedious, in that a negative opinion can't be valid and the user just didn't 'do it properly.' The author went to the effort of providing the rationale for his opinion at least. Per your second point. Why is that not a Windows problem? Because a lot of other people don't experience it? Just because a whole heap of people can work with Windows might mean they just got used to it, rather than it was good in the first place, which goes back to your first sentence. No OS is 'good' for everyone, as no OS is 'bad' for everyone.
  - darkteflon 4y ago
    I can see that my comment did look like it was accusing the author of TFA of engaging in a rant. That’s my bad - I was instead responding to parent’s second paragraph. As to your second point: I agree. Those specific discussions around what people like and dislike, and why, are interesting and thought-provoking. The low-effort “loll Apple drone” hot-takes that pop up on all of these threads, less so.
    - headsoup 4y ago
      Ah ok, I see and yes agreed. It is frustrating when interesting conversation/debate points are drowned out by the inevitable 'troll' comments that explode the threads into pointless arguments.
- npigrounet 4y ago
  No, no, don't worry: Windows is the problem.
JoelMcCracken 4y ago
“France is really dumb because I can’t understand what they are saying. Look, even England does it the way I know!”
- chillacy 4y ago
  "Impressions from a first-time english speaker" > A little background on me: I’ve been speaking French and Spanish my entire professional life ... > The Bad > I’m accustomed to gendered pronouns in both French and Spanish, so it was nice to see that in English. However, the lack of gendered nouns is awful. French and Spanish both have what I would call “sane” gendered nouns (shown in this dictionary), where you know of everyone's gender based on the adjective you hear. > On the other hand, English has a weird grammatical system where you need to listen to the pronoun to know someone or something's gender. I want to know if someone is a man, a woman, or a chair based on the adjective, not just the pronoun.
  - JoelMcCracken 4y ago
    Very fine, you took my stupid comment and made it something good.
  - KyeRussell 4y ago
    A fun parallel. Consider the importance being placed on gender to be in part a malleable cultural factor in part perpetuated by language. Plenty on this in the sphere of ‘gender studies’.
  - throwaway675309 4y ago
    I hate that idea, it's effectively overloading a noun that objectively speaking should only contain information that is intrinsic to the properties of the noun itself. A chair or other inanimate objects do not have genders, and forcing a non-native speaker to conjugate a noun correctly just adds to the mental complexity. Side note: this is why I love grammatically simple languages such as Chinese.
kevingadd 4y ago
People on corp hardware can't install third party utilities, though. You're basically saying "it's fine that this OS can't do what you need it to do, because I can customize it for my purposes". Not to mention - even if the author could install those third party utilities, now they're pulling untrusted code into a work environment and potentially exposing trade secrets to random software developers. Any IT department paying attention would not okay most of those tools. The stuff the author complains about missing is built in on Windows and Linux and is not particularly niche or complex.
- Noumenon72 4y ago
  My job lets me use everything from Contexts to Karabiner and I am so happy. Now I'm afraid to ever switch jobs and lose my productivity.
knolan 4y ago
You don’t even have to use the green zoom button. Just double click the top of the window like in every other OS. The difference is that zooming a window is not the same as maximising. It makes the window as big as the content it contains. Also you can double click the edge of any window to extend it to the edge of the screen. I really don’t get the obsession for tiling windows personally. It’s not part of my workflow.
- wyclif 4y ago
  Apple calls the green button “zoom” in their documentation, but its default function is fullscreen, not zoom. I've always found that a bit disorienting. I guess Apple just decided that "zoom" is better as a name because it's one short word instead of two.
  - knolan 4y ago
    Yes, they switched the behaviour shortly after they added the full screen mode merging it with a separate full screen icon they had introduced. The old behaviour is retained by option clicking the green button. It's annoying and I wish they kept it as was.
tener 4y ago
It is hilarious that a button called "zoom" only does "zoom" when you use its alternative functionality and by default does something completely different.

by teilo 4y ago

thiagocmoraes 4y ago

I've been using macs for 9 years and never knew about option+click. Granted I've been using apps for window management since forever as the native tools suck or are almost hidden.

kitsunesoba 4y ago
Just FYI, holding down modifiers to reveal additional functions is a common theme in macOS. In the Finder for example, try holding down option and shift while looking through menus for a few examples. Holding down option while clicking the close or minimize buttons in apps will also close or minimize all windows for that app.
- guywhocodes 4y ago
  2 years into being forced to use them for work and this is the first time I even hear anyone mention this. Thanks!, I'll be checking it out first thing in the morning

jayd16 4y ago

This is Apple UX in a nutshell. Hidden power tools are not intuitive.

Tagbert 4y ago
In part it is about progressive complexity. The simple things are exposed, more complex options require extra effort to access. Certainly there are times when it would be nice to make it easier to discover the more advanced features but there will always be a tension between keeping defaults simple for new users and exposing advanced features for the more serious users. Often they do it correctly but sometimes there are misses.
_aavaa_ 4y ago
We can argue about them being intuitive or not, but at least they exist.
lwkl 4y ago
How is this Apple UX specific? Windows UX and Linux UX work the same way. I'd argue a lot of power user feature are more accessible on macOS than on Windows. The shortcuts and gestures for macOS can be found in the system settings and you can change the shortcuts. How are you supposed to find them on Windows? I think people see macOS as more intuitive because it doesn't offer as much customization and is relatively consistent compared to Windows. Also it doesn't have as many nested menus. The system settings on macOS go maybe three levels deep while on Windows you can go at least 5 or six levels deep if not more. Now guess which one will feel more intuitive? The downside is you have to install some third-party tools if you want some features. But I prefer that to a lot of bloat.
- diffeomorphism 4y ago
  > How is this Apple UX specific? Windows UX and Linux UX work the same way. Meanwhile the post just below yours: "I have been using macs for 9 years and never knew ...". So, no. They don't. "Power user" things are much less discoverable on macs.
- FeepingCreature 4y ago
  In KDE, you discover features by trawling the settings. :-) "[x] Enable FooBar mode" oh hey, this tool has a FooBar mode! In my experience, almost the first thing I do when trying a new program is having a look through the settings.
- jayd16 4y ago
  >The shortcuts and gestures for macOS can be found in the system settings and you can change the shortcuts. Can they? Where can I find the shortcut to copy the current path in Finder?

josho 4y ago

Or double click on the window to perform the original Mac Zoom function.

stouset 4y ago

Or double-clicking the window chrome.

olyjohn 4y ago
That works... most of the time.

lemoncucumber 4y ago

I set up a custom "All Applications" keyboard shortcut for the Zoom command, it's really handy.

dont__panic 4y ago

Yep, as someone who's gotten really really dependent on app Exposé on macOS... it's hard for me to switch to a keyboard for things I'd rather do on the trackpad! I do have to agree, though, that macOS window management can feel a bit clunky using a mouse and keyboard. That's a user story that the macOS UI/UX team ought to look into, it wouldn't be that hard to create some decent bindings in the OS itself.

darkteflon 4y ago

Absolutely - these ranty invectives are so tedious. The idea that something is fundamentally broken because it doesn’t work the way you expect it to. I struggle through each of my Windows sessions despite having used Windows since the 80s and having built probably more than 10 PCs over the past 30 years. I don’t blame Windows for that. I daily drive MacOS and that’s what I’m used to. That’s a me problem, not a Windows problem.

agentgumshoe 4y ago
These responses are also tedious, in that a negative opinion can't be valid and the user just didn't 'do it properly.' The author went to the effort of providing the rationale for his opinion at least. Per your second point. Why is that not a Windows problem? Because a lot of other people don't experience it? Just because a whole heap of people can work with Windows might mean they just got used to it, rather than it was good in the first place, which goes back to your first sentence. No OS is 'good' for everyone, as no OS is 'bad' for everyone.
- darkteflon 4y ago
  I can see that my comment did look like it was accusing the author of TFA of engaging in a rant. That’s my bad - I was instead responding to parent’s second paragraph. As to your second point: I agree. Those specific discussions around what people like and dislike, and why, are interesting and thought-provoking. The low-effort “loll Apple drone” hot-takes that pop up on all of these threads, less so.
  - headsoup 4y ago
    Ah ok, I see and yes agreed. It is frustrating when interesting conversation/debate points are drowned out by the inevitable 'troll' comments that explode the threads into pointless arguments.
npigrounet 4y ago
No, no, don't worry: Windows is the problem.

JoelMcCracken 4y ago

“France is really dumb because I can’t understand what they are saying. Look, even England does it the way I know!”

chillacy 4y ago
"Impressions from a first-time english speaker" > A little background on me: I’ve been speaking French and Spanish my entire professional life ... > The Bad > I’m accustomed to gendered pronouns in both French and Spanish, so it was nice to see that in English. However, the lack of gendered nouns is awful. French and Spanish both have what I would call “sane” gendered nouns (shown in this dictionary), where you know of everyone's gender based on the adjective you hear. > On the other hand, English has a weird grammatical system where you need to listen to the pronoun to know someone or something's gender. I want to know if someone is a man, a woman, or a chair based on the adjective, not just the pronoun.
- JoelMcCracken 4y ago
  Very fine, you took my stupid comment and made it something good.
- KyeRussell 4y ago
  A fun parallel. Consider the importance being placed on gender to be in part a malleable cultural factor in part perpetuated by language. Plenty on this in the sphere of ‘gender studies’.
- throwaway675309 4y ago
  I hate that idea, it's effectively overloading a noun that objectively speaking should only contain information that is intrinsic to the properties of the noun itself. A chair or other inanimate objects do not have genders, and forcing a non-native speaker to conjugate a noun correctly just adds to the mental complexity. Side note: this is why I love grammatically simple languages such as Chinese.

kevingadd 4y ago

People on corp hardware can't install third party utilities, though. You're basically saying "it's fine that this OS can't do what you need it to do, because I can customize it for my purposes". Not to mention - even if the author could install those third party utilities, now they're pulling untrusted code into a work environment and potentially exposing trade secrets to random software developers. Any IT department paying attention would not okay most of those tools. The stuff the author complains about missing is built in on Windows and Linux and is not particularly niche or complex.

Noumenon72 4y ago
My job lets me use everything from Contexts to Karabiner and I am so happy. Now I'm afraid to ever switch jobs and lose my productivity.

knolan 4y ago

You don’t even have to use the green zoom button. Just double click the top of the window like in every other OS. The difference is that zooming a window is not the same as maximising. It makes the window as big as the content it contains. Also you can double click the edge of any window to extend it to the edge of the screen. I really don’t get the obsession for tiling windows personally. It’s not part of my workflow.

wyclif 4y ago
Apple calls the green button “zoom” in their documentation, but its default function is fullscreen, not zoom. I've always found that a bit disorienting. I guess Apple just decided that "zoom" is better as a name because it's one short word instead of two.
- knolan 4y ago
  Yes, they switched the behaviour shortly after they added the full screen mode merging it with a separate full screen icon they had introduced. The old behaviour is retained by option clicking the green button. It's annoying and I wish they kept it as was.

tener 4y ago

It is hilarious that a button called "zoom" only does "zoom" when you use its alternative functionality and by default does something completely different.