5 ms·

> In the first, everyone received psilocybin; and in the second - a randomised controlled trial - some were given the drug while others were given a different a

> In the first, everyone received psilocybin; and in the second - a randomised controlled trial - some were given the drug while others were given a different antidepressant How does a control group work here? It's (presumably?) pretty clear to the people who got the mushrooms that they got something pretty unusual and powerful, where nobody gets that kind of jazz from anti-depressants. I feel like that would stomp all over trying to narrow down the placebo effect

zapataband1 5y ago
The second trial was to compare escitalophram with psylocibin. Both groups were given psilocybin -> then brain scan. Then after a few weeks one group given escitalophram and one group given the placebo -> then brain scan. From what I can tell briefly reading the abstract.
fsckboy 5y ago
How does a control group work here? It's (presumably?) pretty clear to the people who got the mushrooms the study compares effects both reported and measured. double blind is important to not introduce "outside" influences, but it's not intended that the subject not experience what they take, quite the opposite, that's what is being measured. If the people who took it report dizziness (aha!), but the people who took the placebo also report dizziness (doh), then that's not evidence that the drug produces dizziness.
- obscur 5y ago
  You mean that blinding is not meant to be able to separate the effect from placebo? If so, I don't agree. I often hear it mentioned in the context of psychedelic research that it is a problem that psychedelics result in unblinding. E.g. Carhart-Harris the other day https://twitter.com/RCarhartHarris/status/1513906164639023108 https://twitter.com/RCarhartHarris/status/151390616463902310...
moistly 5y ago
> nobody gets that kind of jazz from anti-depressants Ever been prescribed Effexor®? I assure you, some anti-depressants in some people are an acid trip.
obscur 5y ago
This is a valid problem and my impression is that researchers are aware of this problem but are just working with what they have got. https://twitter.com/RCarhartHarris/status/1513906164639023108 https://twitter.com/RCarhartHarris/status/151390616463902310...

zapataband1 5y ago

The second trial was to compare escitalophram with psylocibin. Both groups were given psilocybin -> then brain scan. Then after a few weeks one group given escitalophram and one group given the placebo -> then brain scan. From what I can tell briefly reading the abstract.

fsckboy 5y ago

How does a control group work here? It's (presumably?) pretty clear to the people who got the mushrooms the study compares effects both reported and measured. double blind is important to not introduce "outside" influences, but it's not intended that the subject not experience what they take, quite the opposite, that's what is being measured. If the people who took it report dizziness (aha!), but the people who took the placebo also report dizziness (doh), then that's not evidence that the drug produces dizziness.

obscur 5y ago
You mean that blinding is not meant to be able to separate the effect from placebo? If so, I don't agree. I often hear it mentioned in the context of psychedelic research that it is a problem that psychedelics result in unblinding. E.g. Carhart-Harris the other day https://twitter.com/RCarhartHarris/status/1513906164639023108 https://twitter.com/RCarhartHarris/status/151390616463902310...

moistly 5y ago

> nobody gets that kind of jazz from anti-depressants Ever been prescribed Effexor®? I assure you, some anti-depressants in some people are an acid trip.

obscur 5y ago

This is a valid problem and my impression is that researchers are aware of this problem but are just working with what they have got. https://twitter.com/RCarhartHarris/status/1513906164639023108 https://twitter.com/RCarhartHarris/status/151390616463902310...