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But... That curation is a VERY expensive task. Etsy is for artists/creators. If you add curation to the mix one side needs to take a hit - and it ain't going t

But... That curation is a VERY expensive task. Etsy is for artists/creators. If you add curation to the mix one side needs to take a hit - and it ain't going to be your wallet. Basically the reason for Etsy to exist is "direct to consumer" model, with low intermediary overhead and 0 setup hurdles. (If you ever tried to get a product on a supermarket shelf, that's how it is to get onto a successful curated store shelf)

TheRealDunkirk 5y ago
Looks like Etsy made $160M last year. I think they can afford to ramp up their efforts in this area. But, like the Apple App Store, people are only going to get satisfaction if they can make a big enough stink on social media.
- JAlexoid 5y ago
  A) Why should they? B) Are investors not allowed to make any return on their investments in form of dividends?
  - dwighttk 5y ago
    Is Etsy paying dividends?
  - giaour 5y ago
    > Why should they? Because otherwise their brand is asymptotically approaching just being a more expensive Ali Express.
    - JAlexoid 5y ago
      The brand is established and it's not that heavily diluted... Even then - it only needs to keep up with the aesthetics and product types, to keep on top. So no... They don't need to. And curated storefronts were many - I knew of at least 5 startups in that space - they all folded.
  - vorpalhex 5y ago
    > Why should they? If they do not, many sellers will stop using them. Many buyers will stop using them. They will have competition.
    - JAlexoid 5y ago
      You're basically arguing for a monopoly now. Let them fail.
      - vorpalhex 5y ago
        As a consumer, I don't want to go through the effort of finding the next Etsy. I want to be lazy and have the current Etsy be good. Whatever comes next will be small. They will lack some of the things I want for many years.
        JAlexoid 5y ago
        As a lazy person I want sixpack abs, without putting in the effort. Also - monopolies are never good.
        vorpalhex 5y ago
        If shouting at the sky had a chance to convince God to endow me with abs, I would make it a daily practice. Etsy does listen to it's consumers, at least some times. The cost of complaining here is commensurate with the potential benefit.
      - Fomite 5y ago
        "They should do this thing in order to continue to succeed." "Why?" "Because if they don't they'll fail." "Now you're arguing for a monopoly." You can't possibly be arguing in good faith at this point.
        JAlexoid 5y ago
        You have to ignore the "They will have competition." to make your own bad faith argument. PS: And then miss our further interaction
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
spacexsucks 5y ago
I would argue that for artists all their work is already curated if they built it themselves and hence they wouldnt need to curate stuff But if i am selling someone elses stuff, then i am in the business of curation.
- JAlexoid 5y ago
  You're right. But we are talking about Etsy taking an active role in what is available on their site, which is curation. Not an easy task as well. They also decided to be way more lax, than some people want it to be.
christop1957 5y ago
Etsy may be compromised these days but it still IS for artists/creators as you say. We have a stand alone website that gets 2 to 9 visitors a day and our main Etsy site gets hundreds every day. That's why we are on Etsy. We are too small to hire comprehensive SEO/advertising help (I've tried a few) so we let Etsy collect the main slug of customers. We employ 4 people full time.
- cinntaile 5y ago
  What kind of products do you sell?
  - nvr219 5y ago
    Bootleg game boy games.
    - nameisname 5y ago
      Underrated comment lmao
  - christop1957 5y ago
    we make furniture out of old wood
- JAlexoid 5y ago
  Therefore it should be clear that the rise in fees is a reasonable tradeoff, for access to more potential customers. I understand the desire to make sure that goods are authentic, but that is the only reasonable argument in the whole strike manifesto.
giaour 5y ago
Etsy is also for curators, though (at least a specific kind). You have always been able to sell vintage items on their platform, and antique sellers are curators and restorers. Before manufactured goods were on the platform, you were basically browsing items that were either handmade or hand curated. It was a much better experience.
- JAlexoid 5y ago
  Etsy is really for everyone, but the brand image is that it's really artists sales channel. Based on my experience, curators add an extra 50%+ to the price of a product. Which is the cost of well curated storefront.
_aavaa_ 5y ago
That is the cost of doing business. Without the curation they risk losing their customer base. Why should I as a customer go to Etsy if it's filled with knockoff crap rather than handmade things?
- Spivak 5y ago
  Maybe, but Etsy is part of a long line of businesses that think they can solve adversarial search. The fact that Google can't and is losing the war should tell you everything about your chances. As long as you never use the "discovery" half of their business and find shops elsewhere, IG, TikTok, it's a fantastic experience. Basically Shopify but a little more streamlined.
  - wardedVibe 5y ago
    > The fact that Google can't and is losing the war Google has zero incentive to actually win that conflict, as frequently the SEO spam serves up ads from which google directly profits.
- JAlexoid 5y ago
  > Why should I as a customer go to Etsy if it's filled with knockoff crap rather than handmade things? You don't go there. They aren't a curated product website, so why do you expect them to be one? Let them fail. It's baffling to me why so many people are so heavily invested into that brand here...
  - caconym_ 5y ago
    I've bought handmade things on Etsy that are a) very high quality and b) obscure/weird enough that I wouldn't know where else to go for them. Enabling this sort of thing is Etsy's pitch. I have no particular loyalty to their brand, but in the past they've done a great job living up to that promise for me, and I have to assume others have had similar experiences. If they get filled up by Chinesium knockoffs and the quality sellers are driven off, Etsy's product will no longer hold any value for us, and they will lose our business. So yes, "let them fail". But before you accuse us of blind, unearned devotion to a brand, you might consider that there is---or once was---a good reason to prefer Etsy over other options.
john_moscow 5y ago
Well, yes it is. And it works just fine on the "mom and pop shop" scale. But the whole idea of the post-2008 startups is to "disrupt" the industry by replacing the knowledgeable people with algorithms and minimum wage employees. So what is the bottom line? Consumers get to enjoy products that are 2x cheaper and 4x worse. Individual makers get priced out and have to join the drone ranks. And the corporate owners of trademarks and algorithms rake in so much cash they don't know where to invest it anymore. Sadly, this is happening across every sector, and most people seem to be just fine with it.
cjohnson318 5y ago
Curation is expensive, and difficult/impossible to automate, but there's value in it, in a world where anyone can post anything anywhere. We all felt better using Amazon ten years ago, when we could trust reviews, and trust products, but now it's flooded with brand names like "UZOOG" or whatever. People generally liked Facebook more before their grandparents and weird uncle got on it.
- londons_explore 5y ago
  Look at Reddit as a platform which has many well curated 'subreddits', almost entirely for free. It's totally possible on an e-commerce platform. Just nobodies quite managed it yet.
  - hattmall 5y ago
    This has in some ways been a roll filled by subscription boxes.
  - cortesoft 5y ago
    The reason it works on reddit is because there is not money to be directly made by tricking the volunteer curators. If those reddit mods were controlling who could sell something, there would be a lot more effort going into corrupting them.
    - jyrkesh 5y ago
      I still think you're right, Reddit has a much higher signal to noise ratio than almost anywhere else on the internet. But there's absolutely money to made by paying off mods of larger subreddits to curate content in such a way that makes their brands look good.
subpixel 5y ago
Artists and creators are Etsy’s brand. But those sellers have not been the bread and butter of Etsy’s business for ages. I still occasionally find small sellers on Etsy whose stuff interests me and I always wonder why they choose to sell via Etsy and I’m sure it’s: because it works and because it’s less hassle than the other options. The traffic to your shop is worth swimming in a sea of knockoffs and doodads. And that’s what you compete with on the internet at large anyway.

TheRealDunkirk 5y ago

Looks like Etsy made $160M last year. I think they can afford to ramp up their efforts in this area. But, like the Apple App Store, people are only going to get satisfaction if they can make a big enough stink on social media.

JAlexoid 5y ago
A) Why should they? B) Are investors not allowed to make any return on their investments in form of dividends?
- dwighttk 5y ago
  Is Etsy paying dividends?
- giaour 5y ago
  > Why should they? Because otherwise their brand is asymptotically approaching just being a more expensive Ali Express.
  - JAlexoid 5y ago
    The brand is established and it's not that heavily diluted... Even then - it only needs to keep up with the aesthetics and product types, to keep on top. So no... They don't need to. And curated storefronts were many - I knew of at least 5 startups in that space - they all folded.
- vorpalhex 5y ago
  > Why should they? If they do not, many sellers will stop using them. Many buyers will stop using them. They will have competition.
  - JAlexoid 5y ago
    You're basically arguing for a monopoly now. Let them fail.
    - vorpalhex 5y ago
      As a consumer, I don't want to go through the effort of finding the next Etsy. I want to be lazy and have the current Etsy be good. Whatever comes next will be small. They will lack some of the things I want for many years.
      - JAlexoid 5y ago
        As a lazy person I want sixpack abs, without putting in the effort. Also - monopolies are never good.
        vorpalhex 5y ago
        If shouting at the sky had a chance to convince God to endow me with abs, I would make it a daily practice. Etsy does listen to it's consumers, at least some times. The cost of complaining here is commensurate with the potential benefit.
    - Fomite 5y ago
      "They should do this thing in order to continue to succeed." "Why?" "Because if they don't they'll fail." "Now you're arguing for a monopoly." You can't possibly be arguing in good faith at this point.
      - JAlexoid 5y ago
        You have to ignore the "They will have competition." to make your own bad faith argument. PS: And then miss our further interaction
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]

spacexsucks 5y ago

I would argue that for artists all their work is already curated if they built it themselves and hence they wouldnt need to curate stuff But if i am selling someone elses stuff, then i am in the business of curation.

JAlexoid 5y ago
You're right. But we are talking about Etsy taking an active role in what is available on their site, which is curation. Not an easy task as well. They also decided to be way more lax, than some people want it to be.

christop1957 5y ago

Etsy may be compromised these days but it still IS for artists/creators as you say. We have a stand alone website that gets 2 to 9 visitors a day and our main Etsy site gets hundreds every day. That's why we are on Etsy. We are too small to hire comprehensive SEO/advertising help (I've tried a few) so we let Etsy collect the main slug of customers. We employ 4 people full time.

cinntaile 5y ago
What kind of products do you sell?
- nvr219 5y ago
  Bootleg game boy games.
  - nameisname 5y ago
    Underrated comment lmao
- christop1957 5y ago
  we make furniture out of old wood
JAlexoid 5y ago
Therefore it should be clear that the rise in fees is a reasonable tradeoff, for access to more potential customers. I understand the desire to make sure that goods are authentic, but that is the only reasonable argument in the whole strike manifesto.

giaour 5y ago

Etsy is also for curators, though (at least a specific kind). You have always been able to sell vintage items on their platform, and antique sellers are curators and restorers. Before manufactured goods were on the platform, you were basically browsing items that were either handmade or hand curated. It was a much better experience.

JAlexoid 5y ago
Etsy is really for everyone, but the brand image is that it's really artists sales channel. Based on my experience, curators add an extra 50%+ to the price of a product. Which is the cost of well curated storefront.

_aavaa_ 5y ago

That is the cost of doing business. Without the curation they risk losing their customer base. Why should I as a customer go to Etsy if it's filled with knockoff crap rather than handmade things?

Spivak 5y ago
Maybe, but Etsy is part of a long line of businesses that think they can solve adversarial search. The fact that Google can't and is losing the war should tell you everything about your chances. As long as you never use the "discovery" half of their business and find shops elsewhere, IG, TikTok, it's a fantastic experience. Basically Shopify but a little more streamlined.
- wardedVibe 5y ago
  > The fact that Google can't and is losing the war Google has zero incentive to actually win that conflict, as frequently the SEO spam serves up ads from which google directly profits.
JAlexoid 5y ago
> Why should I as a customer go to Etsy if it's filled with knockoff crap rather than handmade things? You don't go there. They aren't a curated product website, so why do you expect them to be one? Let them fail. It's baffling to me why so many people are so heavily invested into that brand here...
- caconym_ 5y ago
  I've bought handmade things on Etsy that are a) very high quality and b) obscure/weird enough that I wouldn't know where else to go for them. Enabling this sort of thing is Etsy's pitch. I have no particular loyalty to their brand, but in the past they've done a great job living up to that promise for me, and I have to assume others have had similar experiences. If they get filled up by Chinesium knockoffs and the quality sellers are driven off, Etsy's product will no longer hold any value for us, and they will lose our business. So yes, "let them fail". But before you accuse us of blind, unearned devotion to a brand, you might consider that there is---or once was---a good reason to prefer Etsy over other options.

john_moscow 5y ago

Well, yes it is. And it works just fine on the "mom and pop shop" scale. But the whole idea of the post-2008 startups is to "disrupt" the industry by replacing the knowledgeable people with algorithms and minimum wage employees. So what is the bottom line? Consumers get to enjoy products that are 2x cheaper and 4x worse. Individual makers get priced out and have to join the drone ranks. And the corporate owners of trademarks and algorithms rake in so much cash they don't know where to invest it anymore. Sadly, this is happening across every sector, and most people seem to be just fine with it.

cjohnson318 5y ago

Curation is expensive, and difficult/impossible to automate, but there's value in it, in a world where anyone can post anything anywhere. We all felt better using Amazon ten years ago, when we could trust reviews, and trust products, but now it's flooded with brand names like "UZOOG" or whatever. People generally liked Facebook more before their grandparents and weird uncle got on it.

londons_explore 5y ago
Look at Reddit as a platform which has many well curated 'subreddits', almost entirely for free. It's totally possible on an e-commerce platform. Just nobodies quite managed it yet.
- hattmall 5y ago
  This has in some ways been a roll filled by subscription boxes.
- cortesoft 5y ago
  The reason it works on reddit is because there is not money to be directly made by tricking the volunteer curators. If those reddit mods were controlling who could sell something, there would be a lot more effort going into corrupting them.
  - jyrkesh 5y ago
    I still think you're right, Reddit has a much higher signal to noise ratio than almost anywhere else on the internet. But there's absolutely money to made by paying off mods of larger subreddits to curate content in such a way that makes their brands look good.

subpixel 5y ago

Artists and creators are Etsy’s brand. But those sellers have not been the bread and butter of Etsy’s business for ages. I still occasionally find small sellers on Etsy whose stuff interests me and I always wonder why they choose to sell via Etsy and I’m sure it’s: because it works and because it’s less hassle than the other options. The traffic to your shop is worth swimming in a sea of knockoffs and doodads. And that’s what you compete with on the internet at large anyway.