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I'm on the side of not joining NATO to trigger further actions to be taken by the crazy man to the east. I condemn war, I don't want there to be a war, therefo

I'm on the side of not joining NATO to trigger further actions to be taken by the crazy man to the east. I condemn war, I don't want there to be a war, therefore I don't want more countries to join NATO as it would be another reason for conflict. If war broke out here because we joined NATO, what would you say then?

AnimalMuppet 5y ago
Ukraine didn't join NATO. It wasn't on the brink of joining NATO. It got invaded anyway. So if Finland, say, joins NATO and gets invaded, did it get invaded because it joined? Or would it have been invaded anyway? I also condemn war. I don't want there to be war. But given the crazy man in the east, I'd rather have people to help me shoot back if it came to that.
yakshaving_jgt 5y ago
As I explained to you in another comment[0], it's not about NATO expansion. Furthermore, your pacifism is exactly what fuels Russia's aggression. If you want fewer people to die and fewer nations to be subject to terrorism of the kind that Russia is subjecting Ukraine to, then you should be in favour of Russia's swift and crushing military defeat on the battlefield. You can't appease a tyrant by singing kumbaya and cowering in the corner. Hitler and his buddies had to die for peace in Europe to be restored. The current administration of the Russian Federation is no different. [0]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30991398 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30991398
jacquesm 5y ago
> to trigger further actions to be taken by the crazy man to the east You are trying to argue that Putin is both crazy and rational in the same line. > I condemn war, I don't want there to be a war, therefore I don't want more countries to join NATO as it would be another reason for conflict. If someone wants conflict, anything will be a valid pretext for that conflict and if not one will be conveniently provided by a false flag operation. Standard Russian playbook since time immemorial. > If war broke out here because we joined NATO, what would you say then? The chances of that are roughly just as large as the chances of war breaking out if Sweden did not join NATO. But if you did join NATO then at least you would not be in the position that Ukraine finds itself in today. Neutrality is a great thing, right up to the point where you are attacked yourself, and then everybody remembers that you took great pains to be neutral. I assume you do expect the rest of Europe and NATO to come and aid Sweden if it does get attacked?

AnimalMuppet 5y ago

Ukraine didn't join NATO. It wasn't on the brink of joining NATO. It got invaded anyway. So if Finland, say, joins NATO and gets invaded, did it get invaded because it joined? Or would it have been invaded anyway? I also condemn war. I don't want there to be war. But given the crazy man in the east, I'd rather have people to help me shoot back if it came to that.

yakshaving_jgt 5y ago

As I explained to you in another comment[0], it's not about NATO expansion. Furthermore, your pacifism is exactly what fuels Russia's aggression. If you want fewer people to die and fewer nations to be subject to terrorism of the kind that Russia is subjecting Ukraine to, then you should be in favour of Russia's swift and crushing military defeat on the battlefield. You can't appease a tyrant by singing kumbaya and cowering in the corner. Hitler and his buddies had to die for peace in Europe to be restored. The current administration of the Russian Federation is no different. [0]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30991398 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30991398

jacquesm 5y ago

> to trigger further actions to be taken by the crazy man to the east You are trying to argue that Putin is both crazy and rational in the same line. > I condemn war, I don't want there to be a war, therefore I don't want more countries to join NATO as it would be another reason for conflict. If someone wants conflict, anything will be a valid pretext for that conflict and if not one will be conveniently provided by a false flag operation. Standard Russian playbook since time immemorial. > If war broke out here because we joined NATO, what would you say then? The chances of that are roughly just as large as the chances of war breaking out if Sweden did not join NATO. But if you did join NATO then at least you would not be in the position that Ukraine finds itself in today. Neutrality is a great thing, right up to the point where you are attacked yourself, and then everybody remembers that you took great pains to be neutral. I assume you do expect the rest of Europe and NATO to come and aid Sweden if it does get attacked?