4 ms·

It has a lot of upsides for the military establishment, remember when Russia was not a threat and NATO decided to have 3 trainings in Ukraine and start talks ab

It has a lot of upsides for the military establishment, remember when Russia was not a threat and NATO decided to have 3 trainings in Ukraine and start talks about a Russia bordering country joining a Russia enemy conglomerate? Remember when a bordering state of US tried to put enemy weapons on their territory and the US almost deleting that state from earth logs? I think US right now, especially if this announcement is true is the main european Enemy, US is expanding it's world oversight by expanding NATO on European borders at expense of European stability, this is due to the shallowness of european leaders It's US wagering European lives for its interests

dragonwriter 5y ago
> remember when Russia was not a threat and NATO decided to have 3 trainings in Ukraine No. I remember when Ukraine tossed out a Russian puppet and Russia nearly immediately invaded and has been continuously at war with Ukraine since. When was this time that Russia wasn't a threat and Ukraine was having trainings with NATO?
- lnxg33k1 5y ago
  Wait, about the first reply, because trainings are objective, differently from who is a threat to whom Sept 2021: https://www.reuters.com/business/aerospace-defense/ukraine-holds-military-drills-with-us-forces-nato-allies-2021-09-20/ https://www.reuters.com/business/aerospace-defense/ukraine-h... https://www.army.mil/article/250444/us_nato_ukraine_enhance_interoperability_with_rapid_trident_exercise https://www.army.mil/article/250444/us_nato_ukraine_enhance_... But one training can still be seen as a threat on the border of a superpower? IS Army.mil news credible enough for US people outside the reach of russian propaganda? Does it reply your question when was US training on the border of Russia? Can we accept US as a enemy of europe? Or better, can we accept the fact that US is only giving important to ITS own interests without care of the safety of anyone else? (makes sense, it should be european leaders representing europeans interests), but someone should be able to say, european leaders currently suck, damaging their people in order to represent US interests in ukraine
  - dragonwriter 5y ago
    September 2021 was 7 years into the war that started with the 2014 invasion of Ukraine by Russia. It does not count as a time when Russia was not a threat. Yes, NATO conducted trainings with Ukraine during the ongoing war started by Russia.
    - lnxg33k1 5y ago
      Yes but you asked me when was the time when NATO trained on the border with Russia, now you move the goalpost? I think Russian invading Crimea is despiseful and the referendum is fake because there was no campaign or anything, but I also understand that superpowers earn different treatments due to the fact that they can cause nuclear blasts and end the world in minutes. Russia invaded Crimea when the political sentiment in Ukraine started considering the sentiment of joining NATO/EU, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revolution_of_Dignity#United_States_involvement https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revolution_of_Dignity#United_S... I think the issue is that US has been involved in the political environment of a EU bordering country, without any opposition from European leaders.
      - dragonwriter 5y ago
        > Yes but you asked me when was the time when NATO trained on the border with Russia No, I asked, and I will quote directly, “When was this time that Russia wasn't a threat and Ukraine was having trainings with NATO?” That was the claim: that NATO conducted multiple trainings with Ukraine when Russia was not a threat, and that this was the casus belli for Russian aggression. Leaving aside that this would not be legitimate casus belli in any case, it is simply factually false: all the NATO trainings occurred during the war, after Russian aggression against Ukraine began. There cannot retroactively justify the aggression.
        chha 5y ago
        > all the NATO trainings occurred during the war, after Russian aggression against Ukraine began. Wrong. NATO had at least one Partnership for Peace exercise in Ukraine in October 2002, a few hours drive from L'Viv.[1] And just to be specific; this doesn't justify any aggression on Russia's behalf, sovereign nations are free to decide who to ally with. [1] - https://www.nato.int/ims/2002/p021007e.htm https://www.nato.int/ims/2002/p021007e.htm
- ghostwriter 5y ago
  - glogla 5y ago
    FYI, this account has many pro-Russian posts in its history, including denial of recent massacres in Bucha.
    - ghostwriter 5y ago
      - glogla 5y ago
        > FYI you're lying, I never denied massacres in Bucha, I only was asking questions on what side was responsible for it. Oh. My. God. I've had enough HN for today.
        ghostwriter 5y ago
    - lnxg33k1 5y ago
      I mean why should it be reported? If someone is agreeing with a policy then it would consistently agreeing with such policies? Like it has been 2 months that European leaders have fought for US interests but do you see people saying “ok you can’t trust this politicians anymore cuz they’ve protected us interests for a while already”, I’m Italian without any interest in Russia and still if you check my history I am more against the only country who dropped 2 atomic bombs killing 200k civilians , than Russia, am I not repliable?
      - ghostwriter 5y ago
        I don't even agree with the policy. I'm just trying to get to the truth instead of blindly following the media narrative. No claim about war crimes should pass without further thorough investigation. I don't understand why my previous post had to be flagged. It is a matter of fact that the western media for the most part has lost any interest in investigating and covering the Kramatorsk shelling after the rocket's serial number had been revealed in a footage of an Italian media [1]. One would think that once you have the number it would be relatively easy for NATO to precisely identify and name the perpetrator, but the media is silent on that matter since two days ago. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sWLl0aGQEPw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sWLl0aGQEPw
- BbzzbB 5y ago
  We can drop the "nearly". Yanukovych left Kyiv on Feb 21nd 2014, was ousted as president by the 22d and fled to Russia by the 26th. [0, 1] Russia invaded Crimea with boots on the ground by Feb 22-23d. [2] I wager people who still accept the NATO pretense never checked the timelines of how this started in the first place. 0: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viktor_Yanukovych https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viktor_Yanukovych 1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euromaidan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euromaidan 2: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russo-Ukrainian_War#2014_Russian_annexation_of_Crimea https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russo-Ukrainian_War#2014_Russi...
  - fsloth 5y ago
    100% This is not about NATO. This is about Russia attempting a genocide of the Ukrainian people. This is not the first time Russian state attempted such a thing. Holodomor was an engineered famine with the intent of destroying Ukraine. And now they are at it again https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor Generally as a state Russia is just horrible to all of the nations at it's borders it feels it has enough force to subjugate. They are not idiots - they realize NATO would never invade Russia. However, what NATO would have done, is give Ukrainian so much force projection capability within their territory Russia could never threaten them militarily again. This about a narcissistic bully wanting to subjugate as many people by fear under it's thumb as possible.
fsloth 5y ago
No. This is Mearsheimer brand of bullshit. Not everything is a US plot. Countries join NATO by their own volition. Because they want to. East European countries wished to join NATO. Exactly because they knew what Russia is - like we all do now, based on the events in Ukraine.

dragonwriter 5y ago

> remember when Russia was not a threat and NATO decided to have 3 trainings in Ukraine No. I remember when Ukraine tossed out a Russian puppet and Russia nearly immediately invaded and has been continuously at war with Ukraine since. When was this time that Russia wasn't a threat and Ukraine was having trainings with NATO?

lnxg33k1 5y ago
Wait, about the first reply, because trainings are objective, differently from who is a threat to whom Sept 2021: https://www.reuters.com/business/aerospace-defense/ukraine-holds-military-drills-with-us-forces-nato-allies-2021-09-20/ https://www.reuters.com/business/aerospace-defense/ukraine-h... https://www.army.mil/article/250444/us_nato_ukraine_enhance_interoperability_with_rapid_trident_exercise https://www.army.mil/article/250444/us_nato_ukraine_enhance_... But one training can still be seen as a threat on the border of a superpower? IS Army.mil news credible enough for US people outside the reach of russian propaganda? Does it reply your question when was US training on the border of Russia? Can we accept US as a enemy of europe? Or better, can we accept the fact that US is only giving important to ITS own interests without care of the safety of anyone else? (makes sense, it should be european leaders representing europeans interests), but someone should be able to say, european leaders currently suck, damaging their people in order to represent US interests in ukraine
- dragonwriter 5y ago
  September 2021 was 7 years into the war that started with the 2014 invasion of Ukraine by Russia. It does not count as a time when Russia was not a threat. Yes, NATO conducted trainings with Ukraine during the ongoing war started by Russia.
  - lnxg33k1 5y ago
    Yes but you asked me when was the time when NATO trained on the border with Russia, now you move the goalpost? I think Russian invading Crimea is despiseful and the referendum is fake because there was no campaign or anything, but I also understand that superpowers earn different treatments due to the fact that they can cause nuclear blasts and end the world in minutes. Russia invaded Crimea when the political sentiment in Ukraine started considering the sentiment of joining NATO/EU, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revolution_of_Dignity#United_States_involvement https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revolution_of_Dignity#United_S... I think the issue is that US has been involved in the political environment of a EU bordering country, without any opposition from European leaders.
    - dragonwriter 5y ago
      > Yes but you asked me when was the time when NATO trained on the border with Russia No, I asked, and I will quote directly, “When was this time that Russia wasn't a threat and Ukraine was having trainings with NATO?” That was the claim: that NATO conducted multiple trainings with Ukraine when Russia was not a threat, and that this was the casus belli for Russian aggression. Leaving aside that this would not be legitimate casus belli in any case, it is simply factually false: all the NATO trainings occurred during the war, after Russian aggression against Ukraine began. There cannot retroactively justify the aggression.
      - chha 5y ago
        > all the NATO trainings occurred during the war, after Russian aggression against Ukraine began. Wrong. NATO had at least one Partnership for Peace exercise in Ukraine in October 2002, a few hours drive from L'Viv.[1] And just to be specific; this doesn't justify any aggression on Russia's behalf, sovereign nations are free to decide who to ally with. [1] - https://www.nato.int/ims/2002/p021007e.htm https://www.nato.int/ims/2002/p021007e.htm
ghostwriter 5y ago
- glogla 5y ago
  FYI, this account has many pro-Russian posts in its history, including denial of recent massacres in Bucha.
  - ghostwriter 5y ago
    - glogla 5y ago
      > FYI you're lying, I never denied massacres in Bucha, I only was asking questions on what side was responsible for it. Oh. My. God. I've had enough HN for today.
      - ghostwriter 5y ago
  - lnxg33k1 5y ago
    I mean why should it be reported? If someone is agreeing with a policy then it would consistently agreeing with such policies? Like it has been 2 months that European leaders have fought for US interests but do you see people saying “ok you can’t trust this politicians anymore cuz they’ve protected us interests for a while already”, I’m Italian without any interest in Russia and still if you check my history I am more against the only country who dropped 2 atomic bombs killing 200k civilians , than Russia, am I not repliable?
    - ghostwriter 5y ago
      I don't even agree with the policy. I'm just trying to get to the truth instead of blindly following the media narrative. No claim about war crimes should pass without further thorough investigation. I don't understand why my previous post had to be flagged. It is a matter of fact that the western media for the most part has lost any interest in investigating and covering the Kramatorsk shelling after the rocket's serial number had been revealed in a footage of an Italian media [1]. One would think that once you have the number it would be relatively easy for NATO to precisely identify and name the perpetrator, but the media is silent on that matter since two days ago. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sWLl0aGQEPw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sWLl0aGQEPw
BbzzbB 5y ago
We can drop the "nearly". Yanukovych left Kyiv on Feb 21nd 2014, was ousted as president by the 22d and fled to Russia by the 26th. [0, 1] Russia invaded Crimea with boots on the ground by Feb 22-23d. [2] I wager people who still accept the NATO pretense never checked the timelines of how this started in the first place. 0: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viktor_Yanukovych https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viktor_Yanukovych 1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euromaidan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euromaidan 2: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russo-Ukrainian_War#2014_Russian_annexation_of_Crimea https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russo-Ukrainian_War#2014_Russi...
- fsloth 5y ago
  100% This is not about NATO. This is about Russia attempting a genocide of the Ukrainian people. This is not the first time Russian state attempted such a thing. Holodomor was an engineered famine with the intent of destroying Ukraine. And now they are at it again https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor Generally as a state Russia is just horrible to all of the nations at it's borders it feels it has enough force to subjugate. They are not idiots - they realize NATO would never invade Russia. However, what NATO would have done, is give Ukrainian so much force projection capability within their territory Russia could never threaten them militarily again. This about a narcissistic bully wanting to subjugate as many people by fear under it's thumb as possible.

fsloth 5y ago

No. This is Mearsheimer brand of bullshit. Not everything is a US plot. Countries join NATO by their own volition. Because they want to. East European countries wished to join NATO. Exactly because they knew what Russia is - like we all do now, based on the events in Ukraine.