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>> In more than a decade, crypto has still not found a viable use-case. > In my eyes, having an alternative to high-inflation currencies around South America a

>> In more than a decade, crypto has still not found a viable use-case. > In my eyes, having an alternative to high-inflation currencies around South America and Africa is one hell of a use case. No it isn't. Why? US dollars and gold work far better for that use case than cryptocurrency.

exdsq 5y ago
What about those countries with sanctions from the US or governments that don't allow the USD to be used, such as Cuba? Do you think the majority of people in Nigeria pay their rent with a USD note or a gold coin? Yes you can get USD on the black market but it's at a much worse rate than the global exchange rate. You're going to be paying, most likely, with M-PESA or a digital currency like eNaira. But maybe you want to avoid 15.7% inflation or high fees? Hence crypto adoption growing by 1200% in the last year throughout Nigeria, and several other African countries.
- tablespoon 5y ago
  > What about those countries with sanctions from the US or governments that don't allow the USD to be used, such as Cuba? That's just plain not true: https://www.hometohavana.com/blog/currency-in-cuba https://www.hometohavana.com/blog/currency-in-cuba: "Despite the Cuban peso being the only official currency in Cuba, there are stores that sell products like groceries, appliances, and other home goods in U.S. dollars and Euros, though they almost exclusively cater to locals." > Do you think the majority of people in Nigeria pay their rent with a USD note or a gold coin? ... But maybe you want to avoid 15.7% inflation or high fees? Do you think they pay their rent with Bitcoin? The point being: whatever upsides Bitcoin has, the dollar typically has it better; and whatever downsides the dollar has, Bitcoin typically has it worse. Both the dollar and gold work to avoid local-currency inflation (and have more widely recognized value and less volatility), and Bitcoin has high fees too. Also, look up "dollarization."
  - exdsq 5y ago
    > That's just plain not true You can only use USD if you're a resident in Dollar Stores. You can't use USD cards, you can't bring USD into the country, and even on the link you shared it mentions the USD black market with a 2x differing exchange rate. As a resident you can't deposit USD in banks. What you're describing is the illegal USD black market. As of last summer, Cuba has allowed cryptocurrency payments to be made and brought them into regulation. There are other countries like this too, such as Argentina. > Do you think they pay their rent with Bitcoin? Not bitcoin, but crypto use is growing. > whatever upsides Bitcoin has, the dollar typically has it better Except in countries that don't allow the USD. Or countries that the US doesn't allow to use the USD. Or countries that have black market exchanges which increase the cost of the USD. Or countries unassociated with the US. Or when the Central Bank of a country threatens to seize all USD. Or so many other reasons... Hence why the USD is not the primary form of payment in these countries and they're using mobile money. Yes bitcoin has higher fees, but there are other cryptocurrencies and I was talking about crypto in general - not just Bitcoin. Although Bitcoin does have low tx fee layers you can use, so it's not that much of a problem.
    - tablespoon 5y ago
      > Except in countries that don't allow the USD. ... Or countries that have black market exchanges which increase the cost of the USD. Why would a country ban USD but allow cryptocurrency, except as a regulatory oversight? > Or countries that the US doesn't allow to use the USD. USD are little pieces of paper that are in wide circulation. The US can't prevent any country that can get their hands on them from using them. If the US government did have that power, drug cartels wouldn't be able to use USD. However, they do (in massive quantities), which proves my point.
      - datadata 5y ago
        The US also can't completely prevent people from creating counterfeit cash, see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superdollar https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superdollar. The transparency of bitcoin is a win here, as everyone can verify that this kind of fraud is not occurring at the base layer.
rmujica 5y ago
Usage of foreign hard currency in these countries (like Argentina) is usually heavily taxed and hard to get by. Bitcoin and other cryptos are easier to use.
datadata 5y ago
For someone in a another country, the current 8%+ inflation of US Dollar is far from negligible, especially when the dilution drivers such as stimulus packages are mostly only to the benefit of US Citizens. Physical bearer assets like cash or gold seem to be far worse than any digital solution in that they can be seized with physical force and are not possible to conceal. Bitcoin's advantage is further that it is digital and permissionless. So just like the US Government can't prevent drug cartels from using cash, it or any other government can't prevent anyone from using bitcoin.

exdsq 5y ago

What about those countries with sanctions from the US or governments that don't allow the USD to be used, such as Cuba? Do you think the majority of people in Nigeria pay their rent with a USD note or a gold coin? Yes you can get USD on the black market but it's at a much worse rate than the global exchange rate. You're going to be paying, most likely, with M-PESA or a digital currency like eNaira. But maybe you want to avoid 15.7% inflation or high fees? Hence crypto adoption growing by 1200% in the last year throughout Nigeria, and several other African countries.

tablespoon 5y ago
> What about those countries with sanctions from the US or governments that don't allow the USD to be used, such as Cuba? That's just plain not true: https://www.hometohavana.com/blog/currency-in-cuba https://www.hometohavana.com/blog/currency-in-cuba: "Despite the Cuban peso being the only official currency in Cuba, there are stores that sell products like groceries, appliances, and other home goods in U.S. dollars and Euros, though they almost exclusively cater to locals." > Do you think the majority of people in Nigeria pay their rent with a USD note or a gold coin? ... But maybe you want to avoid 15.7% inflation or high fees? Do you think they pay their rent with Bitcoin? The point being: whatever upsides Bitcoin has, the dollar typically has it better; and whatever downsides the dollar has, Bitcoin typically has it worse. Both the dollar and gold work to avoid local-currency inflation (and have more widely recognized value and less volatility), and Bitcoin has high fees too. Also, look up "dollarization."
- exdsq 5y ago
  > That's just plain not true You can only use USD if you're a resident in Dollar Stores. You can't use USD cards, you can't bring USD into the country, and even on the link you shared it mentions the USD black market with a 2x differing exchange rate. As a resident you can't deposit USD in banks. What you're describing is the illegal USD black market. As of last summer, Cuba has allowed cryptocurrency payments to be made and brought them into regulation. There are other countries like this too, such as Argentina. > Do you think they pay their rent with Bitcoin? Not bitcoin, but crypto use is growing. > whatever upsides Bitcoin has, the dollar typically has it better Except in countries that don't allow the USD. Or countries that the US doesn't allow to use the USD. Or countries that have black market exchanges which increase the cost of the USD. Or countries unassociated with the US. Or when the Central Bank of a country threatens to seize all USD. Or so many other reasons... Hence why the USD is not the primary form of payment in these countries and they're using mobile money. Yes bitcoin has higher fees, but there are other cryptocurrencies and I was talking about crypto in general - not just Bitcoin. Although Bitcoin does have low tx fee layers you can use, so it's not that much of a problem.
  - tablespoon 5y ago
    > Except in countries that don't allow the USD. ... Or countries that have black market exchanges which increase the cost of the USD. Why would a country ban USD but allow cryptocurrency, except as a regulatory oversight? > Or countries that the US doesn't allow to use the USD. USD are little pieces of paper that are in wide circulation. The US can't prevent any country that can get their hands on them from using them. If the US government did have that power, drug cartels wouldn't be able to use USD. However, they do (in massive quantities), which proves my point.
    - datadata 5y ago
      The US also can't completely prevent people from creating counterfeit cash, see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superdollar https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superdollar. The transparency of bitcoin is a win here, as everyone can verify that this kind of fraud is not occurring at the base layer.

rmujica 5y ago

Usage of foreign hard currency in these countries (like Argentina) is usually heavily taxed and hard to get by. Bitcoin and other cryptos are easier to use.

datadata 5y ago

For someone in a another country, the current 8%+ inflation of US Dollar is far from negligible, especially when the dilution drivers such as stimulus packages are mostly only to the benefit of US Citizens. Physical bearer assets like cash or gold seem to be far worse than any digital solution in that they can be seized with physical force and are not possible to conceal. Bitcoin's advantage is further that it is digital and permissionless. So just like the US Government can't prevent drug cartels from using cash, it or any other government can't prevent anyone from using bitcoin.