4 ms·

"If"? Like...forced sterilization and "re-education" camps for religious and ethnic minorities? https://www.newyorker.com/news/a-reporter-at-large/china-xinjia

by md_ 5y ago

"If"? Like...forced sterilization and "re-education" camps for religious and ethnic minorities? https://www.newyorker.com/news/a-reporter-at-large/china-xinjiang-prison-state-uighur-detention-camps-prisoner-testimony https://www.newyorker.com/news/a-reporter-at-large/china-xin... Spying on Uighers abroad and holding their innocent relatives at home hostage so that they will not agitate against human rights abuses? https://harpers.org/archive/2022/04/the-spies-next-door-uighur-exiles-turkey-intimidation/ https://harpers.org/archive/2022/04/the-spies-next-door-uigh... Or employing slave labor in factories in Western supply chains? https://www.aspi.org.au/report/uyghurs-sale https://www.aspi.org.au/report/uyghurs-sale

trasz 5y ago
newaccount74 5y ago
I think the worst part is where they murder political prisoners by removing their organs to transplant them to rich people from abroad. Horrible things have been going on in China for decades but nobody dares say anything because we are dependent on their manufacturing.
- atlasunshrugged 5y ago
  Woah, hadn't heard about the murdering political prisoners and doing transplants, can you share a link to where I can read more?
  - md_ 5y ago
    I think a reference to https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/jun/17/china-is-harvesting-organs-from-detainees-uk-tribunal-concludes https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/jun/17/china-is-harve....
mort96 5y ago
If your argument is that we ought to be much more harsh against China due to their treatment of their population, then yeah, that's fair. All the stuff you mention, and more, is pretty horrific and deserving of some kind of response. However, historically, it doesn't seem like the imperial core enacts aggressive foreign policy purely for the benefit of the people in a country. Sanctioning China would be against the imperial core's geopolitical and financial interests at the moment, which means it won't happen, even though China's actions are ethically horrific. GP's "if" refers to if China does something which makes countries in the core actually sanction China. If I'm wrong, please correct me, it would be interesting to see cases where the core enacts sanctions against its own geopolitical, ideological or financial interests in an attempt to benefit some suppressed group of people. I'm not an expert on the topic, just casually interested.
- md_ 5y ago
  As with everything, there's nuance. But, yes, it's politically a lot harder to argue for sanctions that will have a significant effect on consumers/voters than those that will not.
ComradePhil 5y ago
Talk about being out of touch. The Uigher and Hong Kong propaganda was built for when Trump was around. It has disappeared now. When it was around, HN posts amplifying it got massive upvotes: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24879870 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24879870 Even if Uigher thing is important for you for personal, professional or ideological reasons, you need to wait for the correct timing if you are to be heard.
- md_ 5y ago
  It seems pretty inhumane to see the victimization of minorities in China purely through the lens of US domestic politics, but ok, sure. It’s not about the human rights issues, it’s about…upvotes from American HN readers?
  - ComradePhil 5y ago
    Uighers in China are Muslims and like Muslims in many countries, they are groomed by the Middle Eastern allies of the US... with messages that align with the US interests. In China, that has meant creating unrest by fueling anti-government rhetoric and separatism. China noticed this and decided to fix it the way they know how... and they have done an incredible job... so the only thing the west got out of it is crying "racism" to their clueless peasants.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]

by md_ 5y ago

trasz 5y ago

newaccount74 5y ago

I think the worst part is where they murder political prisoners by removing their organs to transplant them to rich people from abroad. Horrible things have been going on in China for decades but nobody dares say anything because we are dependent on their manufacturing.

atlasunshrugged 5y ago
Woah, hadn't heard about the murdering political prisoners and doing transplants, can you share a link to where I can read more?
- md_ 5y ago
  I think a reference to https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/jun/17/china-is-harvesting-organs-from-detainees-uk-tribunal-concludes https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/jun/17/china-is-harve....

mort96 5y ago

If your argument is that we ought to be much more harsh against China due to their treatment of their population, then yeah, that's fair. All the stuff you mention, and more, is pretty horrific and deserving of some kind of response. However, historically, it doesn't seem like the imperial core enacts aggressive foreign policy purely for the benefit of the people in a country. Sanctioning China would be against the imperial core's geopolitical and financial interests at the moment, which means it won't happen, even though China's actions are ethically horrific. GP's "if" refers to if China does something which makes countries in the core actually sanction China. If I'm wrong, please correct me, it would be interesting to see cases where the core enacts sanctions against its own geopolitical, ideological or financial interests in an attempt to benefit some suppressed group of people. I'm not an expert on the topic, just casually interested.

md_ 5y ago
As with everything, there's nuance. But, yes, it's politically a lot harder to argue for sanctions that will have a significant effect on consumers/voters than those that will not.

ComradePhil 5y ago

Talk about being out of touch. The Uigher and Hong Kong propaganda was built for when Trump was around. It has disappeared now. When it was around, HN posts amplifying it got massive upvotes: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24879870 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24879870 Even if Uigher thing is important for you for personal, professional or ideological reasons, you need to wait for the correct timing if you are to be heard.

md_ 5y ago
It seems pretty inhumane to see the victimization of minorities in China purely through the lens of US domestic politics, but ok, sure. It’s not about the human rights issues, it’s about…upvotes from American HN readers?
- ComradePhil 5y ago
  Uighers in China are Muslims and like Muslims in many countries, they are groomed by the Middle Eastern allies of the US... with messages that align with the US interests. In China, that has meant creating unrest by fueling anti-government rhetoric and separatism. China noticed this and decided to fix it the way they know how... and they have done an incredible job... so the only thing the west got out of it is crying "racism" to their clueless peasants.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]