127 ms·

This is absolutely not true, and I'm tired of seeing this. is-odd, alongside a bunch of other microdependencies are almost all the work of one person, who made

by zkldi 5y ago

This is absolutely not true, and I'm tired of seeing this. is-odd, alongside a bunch of other microdependencies are almost all the work of one person, who made as many micropackages as possible and then PRd them into other more popular libraries. There are not 6 million people directly downloading `is-odd` a day. At all. When this person could make one library to do something (like an ANSI-Colouring package), they would fractalise it into as many dependencies as possible, because that boosts their download count on NPM. I should note that this is just one person who has managed to nestle their way into some larger projects. I apologise for the spam, but this point really needs hammering home: https://github.com/jonschlinkert/ansi-black https://github.com/jonschlinkert/ansi-black https://github.com/jonschlinkert/ansi-reset https://github.com/jonschlinkert/ansi-reset https://github.com/jonschlinkert/ansi-bold https://github.com/jonschlinkert/ansi-bold https://github.com/jonschlinkert/ansi-dim https://github.com/jonschlinkert/ansi-dim https://github.com/jonschlinkert/ansi-italic https://github.com/jonschlinkert/ansi-italic https://github.com/jonschlinkert/ansi-underline https://github.com/jonschlinkert/ansi-underline https://github.com/jonschlinkert/ansi-inverse https://github.com/jonschlinkert/ansi-inverse https://github.com/jonschlinkert/ansi-hidden https://github.com/jonschlinkert/ansi-hidden https://github.com/jonschlinkert/ansi-strikethrough https://github.com/jonschlinkert/ansi-strikethrough https://github.com/jonschlinkert/ansi-black https://github.com/jonschlinkert/ansi-black https://github.com/jonschlinkert/ansi-red https://github.com/jonschlinkert/ansi-red https://github.com/jonschlinkert/ansi-green https://github.com/jonschlinkert/ansi-green https://github.com/jonschlinkert/ansi-yellow https://github.com/jonschlinkert/ansi-yellow https://github.com/jonschlinkert/ansi-blue https://github.com/jonschlinkert/ansi-blue https://github.com/jonschlinkert/ansi-magenta https://github.com/jonschlinkert/ansi-magenta https://github.com/jonschlinkert/ansi-cyan https://github.com/jonschlinkert/ansi-cyan https://github.com/jonschlinkert/ansi-white https://github.com/jonschlinkert/ansi-white https://github.com/jonschlinkert/ansi-gray https://github.com/jonschlinkert/ansi-gray https://github.com/jonschlinkert/ansi-grey https://github.com/jonschlinkert/ansi-grey https://github.com/jonschlinkert/ansi-bgblack https://github.com/jonschlinkert/ansi-bgblack https://github.com/jonschlinkert/ansi-bgred https://github.com/jonschlinkert/ansi-bgred https://github.com/jonschlinkert/ansi-bggreen https://github.com/jonschlinkert/ansi-bggreen https://github.com/jonschlinkert/ansi-bgyellow https://github.com/jonschlinkert/ansi-bgyellow https://github.com/jonschlinkert/ansi-bgblue https://github.com/jonschlinkert/ansi-bgblue https://github.com/jonschlinkert/ansi-bgmagenta https://github.com/jonschlinkert/ansi-bgmagenta https://github.com/jonschlinkert/ansi-bgcyan https://github.com/jonschlinkert/ansi-bgcyan https://github.com/jonschlinkert/ansi-bgwhite https://github.com/jonschlinkert/ansi-bgwhite

dahfizz 5y ago
I think you're missing the point. These packages are stupid and too small, but they get millions of downloads a month. That's the problem with the JS community. Instead of rejecting a dependency for being silly, JS devs will happily import them to save two lines of code.
- lucideer 5y ago
  No. The JS community won't happily import stupid packages to save two lines of code, any more than devs in any other community. A very small minority of devs will do this, and publish their larger packages. Those millions of downloads a month are transitive.
  - infamouscow 5y ago
    This is the same kind of defense C programmers make regarding their beloved footguns. That might be true in aggregate, but the exceptions are exceptionally bad, impact a lot of people, and then fools try to rationalize the footgun on HN.
    - paulhodge 5y ago
      The question is, are we seeing that bad behavior because there is something inherent about the platform that encourages it, or are we seeing more with Node just because that community is enormous. Because people love to bring up is-even as a reason why Node & NPM suck. What exactly did NPM do to create the is-even situation? (other than making it super easy to publish). What should they do differently?
      - infamouscow 5y ago
        I'm old enough to remember the early days of Node and listening to a podcast (the name escapes me) with Isaac Schlueter explaining how node_modules isn't a hidden directory because you should vendor it. The problem is Node and NPM grew at a greater rate than the rate it took to introduce someone to vendoring node_modules. Fast-forward a decade and it seems like people have forgotten all about vendoring and instead optimized for blindly shipping code warrantied for no purpose from the Internet. The excuses why people don't vendor their packages are almost identical to the excuses people don't write tests for their code (i.e., time and velocity impact). This isn't a technical problem, but a social one.

by zkldi 5y ago

dahfizz 5y ago

I think you're missing the point. These packages are stupid and too small, but they get millions of downloads a month. That's the problem with the JS community. Instead of rejecting a dependency for being silly, JS devs will happily import them to save two lines of code.

lucideer 5y ago
No. The JS community won't happily import stupid packages to save two lines of code, any more than devs in any other community. A very small minority of devs will do this, and publish their larger packages. Those millions of downloads a month are transitive.
- infamouscow 5y ago
  This is the same kind of defense C programmers make regarding their beloved footguns. That might be true in aggregate, but the exceptions are exceptionally bad, impact a lot of people, and then fools try to rationalize the footgun on HN.
  - paulhodge 5y ago
    The question is, are we seeing that bad behavior because there is something inherent about the platform that encourages it, or are we seeing more with Node just because that community is enormous. Because people love to bring up is-even as a reason why Node & NPM suck. What exactly did NPM do to create the is-even situation? (other than making it super easy to publish). What should they do differently?
    - infamouscow 5y ago
      I'm old enough to remember the early days of Node and listening to a podcast (the name escapes me) with Isaac Schlueter explaining how node_modules isn't a hidden directory because you should vendor it. The problem is Node and NPM grew at a greater rate than the rate it took to introduce someone to vendoring node_modules. Fast-forward a decade and it seems like people have forgotten all about vendoring and instead optimized for blindly shipping code warrantied for no purpose from the Internet. The excuses why people don't vendor their packages are almost identical to the excuses people don't write tests for their code (i.e., time and velocity impact). This isn't a technical problem, but a social one.