4 ms·

I tried. Maybe too close to the debacle when Devuan was newborn. Ran just like a regular Debian, without init-hijack as advertised. But I soon ran into maintena

I tried. Maybe too close to the debacle when Devuan was newborn. Ran just like a regular Debian, without init-hijack as advertised. But I soon ran into maintenance problems. The box I put it on soon couldn't be upgraded and (through my own fault of pulling in dubious backports and fsking my apt-sources file) I ended up back in the ninth circle of systemd. Probably due for a fresh try.

jcadam 5y ago
I'd like to try Devuan, but I'm assuming a lot of software these days assumes the presence of systemd?
- michaelmrose 5y ago
  Most software is below the level of systemd and agnostic to what you are running. Even services are only systemd specific insofar as they provide a systemd unit file which amounts to calling an executable with certain arguments which is convertible to a different system in about 10 seconds. Presumably like void Linux this has been done for you.
  - GauntletWizard 5y ago
    The systemd haters are right about their complaints, but there's a ton that systemd does right, like making the interface expected of a daemon "Run forever and send output to stdin and stdout" rather than "Double fork and rotate your own logfiles" while also having support for the latter.
    - nonrandomstring 5y ago
      > The systemd haters are right about their complaints, but there's a ton that systemd does right Yes. A fair and balanced technical analysis of systemd would have to concede it does a lot of good things, and well - if you subscribe to its paradigm [1]. My beef was with the disruption and bonfire of social capital caused by a heavy-handed, undemocratic, vocal group imposing upon others. It was an ugly episode and seemed to go against all the values I believed Debian stood for. And it came from all sides. The personal attacks on Poettering were inexcusable. [1] I don't. I believe it's a solution that trades away system security and reliability to get userspace convenience.
    - isr 5y ago
      Isn't that the "interface" which djb's daemontools, runit, and later s6 also promotes? Anyway, that question was mostly rhetorical. You don't want to get into the midst of "yet another systemd flamewar" thread (and I don't blame you, neither do I). Just pointing out that non-systemd alternatives provided the abovementioned interface, long before systemd existed.
      - michaelmrose 5y ago
        It usually paints a better narrative to compare systemd vs sysvinit and ignore the fact that runit predates systemd by 6 years. It makes it substantially easier to dismiss detractors as Luddites scared of new things. Imagine if Windows 8 came out and people rightly dunked on its many foibles and proponents said it was clearly superior to DOS and people really ought to just learn to love the charms bar and modern UI instead of sticking with their familiar command line interface.

jcadam 5y ago

I'd like to try Devuan, but I'm assuming a lot of software these days assumes the presence of systemd?

michaelmrose 5y ago
Most software is below the level of systemd and agnostic to what you are running. Even services are only systemd specific insofar as they provide a systemd unit file which amounts to calling an executable with certain arguments which is convertible to a different system in about 10 seconds. Presumably like void Linux this has been done for you.
- GauntletWizard 5y ago
  The systemd haters are right about their complaints, but there's a ton that systemd does right, like making the interface expected of a daemon "Run forever and send output to stdin and stdout" rather than "Double fork and rotate your own logfiles" while also having support for the latter.
  - nonrandomstring 5y ago
    > The systemd haters are right about their complaints, but there's a ton that systemd does right Yes. A fair and balanced technical analysis of systemd would have to concede it does a lot of good things, and well - if you subscribe to its paradigm [1]. My beef was with the disruption and bonfire of social capital caused by a heavy-handed, undemocratic, vocal group imposing upon others. It was an ugly episode and seemed to go against all the values I believed Debian stood for. And it came from all sides. The personal attacks on Poettering were inexcusable. [1] I don't. I believe it's a solution that trades away system security and reliability to get userspace convenience.
  - isr 5y ago
    Isn't that the "interface" which djb's daemontools, runit, and later s6 also promotes? Anyway, that question was mostly rhetorical. You don't want to get into the midst of "yet another systemd flamewar" thread (and I don't blame you, neither do I). Just pointing out that non-systemd alternatives provided the abovementioned interface, long before systemd existed.
    - michaelmrose 5y ago
      It usually paints a better narrative to compare systemd vs sysvinit and ignore the fact that runit predates systemd by 6 years. It makes it substantially easier to dismiss detractors as Luddites scared of new things. Imagine if Windows 8 came out and people rightly dunked on its many foibles and proponents said it was clearly superior to DOS and people really ought to just learn to love the charms bar and modern UI instead of sticking with their familiar command line interface.