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> and norms among java programmers don't favour using libraries for one-liners like left-pad - meaning there are fewer people in a position to launch a supply c

by bogwog 5y ago

> and norms among java programmers don't favour using libraries for one-liners like left-pad - meaning there are fewer people in a position to launch a supply chain attack. Javascript is the only ecosystem I've seen people doing stuff like that. I know this is going to sound elitist, but maybe the problem is that the bar for learning javascript is low, and the incentives for a javascript developer to improve themselves is also low. You can get away with lazy and bad practices for your entire career, even as a senior full-stack developer. Typescript kinda raises that bar a little bit, but not by much. I don't think there's a solution to that particular problem, short of deprecating javascript once WASM reaches a point where it can fully replace it. But even in that scenario, we'll probably start to see JS interpreters ported to WASM anyways. Maybe those "No Code" products are the solution? Replace all of those JS web/app developer positions with people trained on specific No Code platforms that require basically the same amount of programming knowledge, but outsource things like security and architectural decisions to the platform.

shadowgovt 5y ago
The bar to learning is low, the payout in the industry is high (everyone wants a web site, web service, or web app), and (key in this problem-space) the JavaScript standard library is basically a tiny raisin of functionality. It's not so much "incentive to improve self is low" as "it doesn't make sense to rewrite something that exists," and since JS developers, to stereotype, tend to be extremely online, they will tend to solve problems by asking "Is this written yet?" instead of writing Yet Another YAML Parser.
dmatech 5y ago
I never remember hearing about this sort of behavior in the CPAN scene. There's something different at a cultural level with Node. With Node, there have been several instances of otherwise competent coders destroy their own work to make a statement.
ozim 5y ago
This is really not charitable interpretation. Let's take more charitable one where we know that most of dev newcomers flock to JS and expect JS to have things like left-pad. While being newcomer is not a bad thing in itself, unfortunately there is a bunch of expectations and things learned in JS ecosystem that are not aging well. I don't think 'rising bar' is the answer as much as going "No Code/Low Code" is. People that are running companies that depend on newcomers will get what they pay for. Companies that hire people with experience won't notice a thing. Since left-pad a lot of people in the trenches of JS are learning that adding any dependency might cost a lot, and now we see more and more of that.

by bogwog 5y ago

shadowgovt 5y ago

The bar to learning is low, the payout in the industry is high (everyone wants a web site, web service, or web app), and (key in this problem-space) the JavaScript standard library is basically a tiny raisin of functionality. It's not so much "incentive to improve self is low" as "it doesn't make sense to rewrite something that exists," and since JS developers, to stereotype, tend to be extremely online, they will tend to solve problems by asking "Is this written yet?" instead of writing Yet Another YAML Parser.

dmatech 5y ago

I never remember hearing about this sort of behavior in the CPAN scene. There's something different at a cultural level with Node. With Node, there have been several instances of otherwise competent coders destroy their own work to make a statement.

ozim 5y ago

This is really not charitable interpretation. Let's take more charitable one where we know that most of dev newcomers flock to JS and expect JS to have things like left-pad. While being newcomer is not a bad thing in itself, unfortunately there is a bunch of expectations and things learned in JS ecosystem that are not aging well. I don't think 'rising bar' is the answer as much as going "No Code/Low Code" is. People that are running companies that depend on newcomers will get what they pay for. Companies that hire people with experience won't notice a thing. Since left-pad a lot of people in the trenches of JS are learning that adding any dependency might cost a lot, and now we see more and more of that.