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>If e.g. you're mainly using the computer for gaming, playing the latest and most demanding games, then you can easily eliminate any other operating system than

by Zhyl 5y ago

>If e.g. you're mainly using the computer for gaming, playing the latest and most demanding games, then you can easily eliminate any other operating system than Microsoft Windows from the list, because almost nothing will work as well on any other operating system. I think this needs to be qualified. There are many reasons to not want to use Windows, and if the want to use something other than Windows outweighs the cost, then Linux still may be a better choice. Linux can run games now, even those developed for Windows [0], and even having anti-cheat isn't an absolute blocker anymore [1]. While I understand the sentiment Mr Sheikh is trying to express, this kind of unqualified sweeping statement is helping to keep misconceptions spreading even though much progress has been made. [0] https://www.protondb.com https://www.protondb.com [1] https://areweanticheatyet.com/ https://areweanticheatyet.com/

neogodless 5y ago
I'd like to qualify his statement. I like the idea of moving away from Windows, but playing certain kinds of games with close friends and family is a big part of my leisure time. And as much as I want Linux to be ready, some of the games I like to play simply don't work on Linux. At all. All of the games I like work on Windows. (MacOS is, of course, much worse. Of the games I've spent most of my time on over the past 2 years, only about 20% even run at all, let alone with decent quality settings and frame rates.) None of the games I like rely on anti-cheat. I think Linux is leaps and bounds closer to being capable of being used as a gaming desktop than it was just 10 years ago, but it's still very much true that game developers (and hardware engineers) focus on Windows first, and make sure it works there, while Linux is largely an afterthought. If I had chosen to run exclusively Linux, there would be countless times I'm left in the dark while my friends and family were playing games without me. Obviously this might not apply to certain classes of game players, but for me, that's way too high a cost to give up Windows.
- ElectricalUnion 5y ago
  Call me surprised if most game studios still develop Windows first those days. Console pays better in general, and mobile platforms have a much larger market base, so games get developed for those other platforms first. Whatever "PC release" we get is often now a bunch of half-assed scraps, that barely work "on Windows" in the first place, it's a miracle they work on Wine/Proton (and even a better miracle when Proton manages to undo said brain-damaged port bugs).
  - neogodless 5y ago
    No, I agree. That's a good clarification. The thing is, most Xbox exclusives end up available on Windows... but still not Linux (unless Wine/Proton gets them working right.) There are games that are... halfway there. For example, Grounded[0] is a really cool game my wife and I play together. Works great on our Windows PCs. It looks like it'll work in Linux, mostly. But there are issues reported, so you may get lucky, you may not, you may have to spend time experimenting to get it to work. We just installed it and played it. So you're still paying a "price" to choose a different OS that is less of a focus for game developers. (Don't mistake my observations for a preference; it scares me a bit to be tied to Windows after witnessing the train wreck that is Windows 11. I'm on 10 and hope to stay on it as long as I can, with my fingers crossed that Linux approaches parity with Windows in time for me to bail.) [0] https://www.protondb.com/app/962130 https://www.protondb.com/app/962130
Karunamon 5y ago
It's still unreasonable to suggest Linux as a mainstream gaming OS when more than half of the top ten per [1] (so, statistically, the games you likely want to play) are either totally unplayable or have moderate-to-severe problems, with precisely zero having a platinum (perfect) rating. This is changing, but we're not there yet. When Linux gamers can expect an experience on par with Windows, rather than a degraded one involving glitches and arcane tweaking, it'll be safe to recommend in good faith.
AnIdiotOnTheNet 5y ago
While Linux has made a lot of progress in terms of being able to run games[0], the article is correct that it is still quite lackluster for a lot of the latest and greatest. In particular, the VR support is terrible according to everything I've read, with only the Index and some models of Vive being supported at all and Steam VR being a bit of a shitshow on Linux. So if you care about VR, it isn't a good option. I don't play many new demanding games at all, but a friend is trying to get me into DCS and is thus far partially successful. DCS is a fiddly enough bitch on Windows, but apparently it's that much worse in Wine. [0] Linux is such a terrible target for games because of its fragmentation and tendency to break library ABIs frequently. Valve tries to deal with those but if it weren't for the hard work of the WINE community re-implementing the Windows ABIs then gaming on Linux would still basically be limited to emulators, tech demos, and Nethack.
- ElectricalUnion 5y ago
  > Linux is such a terrible target for games because of its fragmentation and tendency to break library ABIs frequently. Linux ABI itself is pretty stable. That unfortunately can't be said of anything that depends on anything not-strictly-kernel, non-strictly-glibc library. > Valve tries to deal with those. Valve attempt to handle those issues is pretty interesting, it's a kinda of "linux standard base" / "python manylinux" hybrid where they strictly freeze portions of the userland. Because of that, you will have some fronzen, kinda buggy years-old libraries, but the resulting binaries works, on several computers, over a reasonably long time, without recompiling anything, most of the time.

by Zhyl 5y ago

neogodless 5y ago

I'd like to qualify his statement. I like the idea of moving away from Windows, but playing certain kinds of games with close friends and family is a big part of my leisure time. And as much as I want Linux to be ready, some of the games I like to play simply don't work on Linux. At all. All of the games I like work on Windows. (MacOS is, of course, much worse. Of the games I've spent most of my time on over the past 2 years, only about 20% even run at all, let alone with decent quality settings and frame rates.) None of the games I like rely on anti-cheat. I think Linux is leaps and bounds closer to being capable of being used as a gaming desktop than it was just 10 years ago, but it's still very much true that game developers (and hardware engineers) focus on Windows first, and make sure it works there, while Linux is largely an afterthought. If I had chosen to run exclusively Linux, there would be countless times I'm left in the dark while my friends and family were playing games without me. Obviously this might not apply to certain classes of game players, but for me, that's way too high a cost to give up Windows.

ElectricalUnion 5y ago
Call me surprised if most game studios still develop Windows first those days. Console pays better in general, and mobile platforms have a much larger market base, so games get developed for those other platforms first. Whatever "PC release" we get is often now a bunch of half-assed scraps, that barely work "on Windows" in the first place, it's a miracle they work on Wine/Proton (and even a better miracle when Proton manages to undo said brain-damaged port bugs).
- neogodless 5y ago
  No, I agree. That's a good clarification. The thing is, most Xbox exclusives end up available on Windows... but still not Linux (unless Wine/Proton gets them working right.) There are games that are... halfway there. For example, Grounded[0] is a really cool game my wife and I play together. Works great on our Windows PCs. It looks like it'll work in Linux, mostly. But there are issues reported, so you may get lucky, you may not, you may have to spend time experimenting to get it to work. We just installed it and played it. So you're still paying a "price" to choose a different OS that is less of a focus for game developers. (Don't mistake my observations for a preference; it scares me a bit to be tied to Windows after witnessing the train wreck that is Windows 11. I'm on 10 and hope to stay on it as long as I can, with my fingers crossed that Linux approaches parity with Windows in time for me to bail.) [0] https://www.protondb.com/app/962130 https://www.protondb.com/app/962130

Karunamon 5y ago

It's still unreasonable to suggest Linux as a mainstream gaming OS when more than half of the top ten per [1] (so, statistically, the games you likely want to play) are either totally unplayable or have moderate-to-severe problems, with precisely zero having a platinum (perfect) rating. This is changing, but we're not there yet. When Linux gamers can expect an experience on par with Windows, rather than a degraded one involving glitches and arcane tweaking, it'll be safe to recommend in good faith.

AnIdiotOnTheNet 5y ago

While Linux has made a lot of progress in terms of being able to run games[0], the article is correct that it is still quite lackluster for a lot of the latest and greatest. In particular, the VR support is terrible according to everything I've read, with only the Index and some models of Vive being supported at all and Steam VR being a bit of a shitshow on Linux. So if you care about VR, it isn't a good option. I don't play many new demanding games at all, but a friend is trying to get me into DCS and is thus far partially successful. DCS is a fiddly enough bitch on Windows, but apparently it's that much worse in Wine. [0] Linux is such a terrible target for games because of its fragmentation and tendency to break library ABIs frequently. Valve tries to deal with those but if it weren't for the hard work of the WINE community re-implementing the Windows ABIs then gaming on Linux would still basically be limited to emulators, tech demos, and Nethack.

ElectricalUnion 5y ago
> Linux is such a terrible target for games because of its fragmentation and tendency to break library ABIs frequently. Linux ABI itself is pretty stable. That unfortunately can't be said of anything that depends on anything not-strictly-kernel, non-strictly-glibc library. > Valve tries to deal with those. Valve attempt to handle those issues is pretty interesting, it's a kinda of "linux standard base" / "python manylinux" hybrid where they strictly freeze portions of the userland. Because of that, you will have some fronzen, kinda buggy years-old libraries, but the resulting binaries works, on several computers, over a reasonably long time, without recompiling anything, most of the time.