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> More generally, whether the student likes it or not, their parents are their parents and are responsible for raising them. The right thing for the teacher to

> More generally, whether the student likes it or not, their parents are their parents and are responsible for raising them. The right thing for the teacher to do in this kind of situation would be to bring the parent into the discussion themselves, so the teacher can support the student directly in that discussion, not to help the student to go behind the parent's back. I heavily disagree with this idea that the parent should be brought into a discussion involving their child when the parent is a danger to their children. This goes against how abuse should be handled in any other circumstance. A teacher should absolutely be going behind the parents' backs when they suspect the child is in danger or is being abused such that they can assist the child in getting out of the dangerous/abusive situation.

pdonis 5y ago
> I heavily disagree with this idea that the parent should be brought into a discussion involving their child when the parent is a danger to their children. How do you know when a parent is a danger to their children? Who gets to decide? On what basis? The answer for this law is that the state already has criteria for that, and those criteria are to be used. Which means the teacher's personal opinion, by itself, is not enough. And that's as it should be. If the teacher really believes the parent is a danger to their children, they have a process they can follow to get that judgment checked by others, and if necessary acted on. But they can't just cut the parent out of the process based on their personal opinion. That's what this law says, and it's correct.
- mlyle 5y ago
  > If the teacher really believes the parent is a danger to their children, they have a process they can follow to get that judgment checked by others, and if necessary acted on. Surely there's some kind of continuum between "needs to be immediately removed from the home by the state, with all evidence in hand to demonstrate this" and "will be supportive and react reasonably to something the student is expressing at school." Teachers routinely keep confidences for their kids. We hear about doubts in parents politics, doubts in the choices that have been made for their future, etc. We are expected to help kids express their own opinions and keep those confidences. Outing some trans kids is going to get them thrown out on the street by their parents, beaten, or worse. That's a guaranteed consequence of this law. I think you know that, deep down.
  - teakettle42 5y ago
    You seem to believe your views preempt those of your students’ parents. You are exactly the type of educator this law is intended to target — quite necessarily, as your comments demonstrate. > We are expected to help kids express their own opinions and keep those confidences. You should not be keeping secrets from students’ parents in the first place. You are not the parent; it is not your call. > Outing some trans kids is going to get them thrown out on the street by their parents, beaten, or worse. Actual abuse is illegal. Report it through proper channels. You do not get to usurp parental authority simply because you think some parents won’t agree with your politics.
    - mlyle 5y ago
      > You seem to believe your views preempt those of your students’ parents. I'm a parent too. I believe that my kids should be able to be their own people at school. I don't know everything that happens with them there. > You are exactly the type of educator this law is intended to target I don't work for a government entity. But nice try at being vaguely menacing. > You should not be keeping secrets from students’ parents in the first place. I'm just curious if this is what you really think. Anything that happens at school-- anything kids express-- should be rolled up in journal form and provided to the parent? Or is there any role for discretion? > Actual abuse is illegal. Report it through proper channels. Waiting for actual harm sounds bad. And there's plenty of harm that's legal or nearly so: if they want to force the kid to leave home on their 18th birthday because of what I told them, that still sucks.
- PuppyTailWags 5y ago
  The law says the teacher can cut the parent out of the process when it comes to reporting abusive parenting. The current discussion is that a new, additional law guarantees additional child abuse occurring. Using the guise of "cutting out" the parents from the child's identity navigation is ignoring the fact the child is requesting confidence because of the parent's abusive behavior. There would be no need for confidence except for the knowledge the parent is dangerous to their child. Before one points out there is already child protective services- functionally, child protective services is overwhelmed, underfunded, and overworked. They are shockingly ineffective through little fault of their own.

pdonis 5y ago

> I heavily disagree with this idea that the parent should be brought into a discussion involving their child when the parent is a danger to their children. How do you know when a parent is a danger to their children? Who gets to decide? On what basis? The answer for this law is that the state already has criteria for that, and those criteria are to be used. Which means the teacher's personal opinion, by itself, is not enough. And that's as it should be. If the teacher really believes the parent is a danger to their children, they have a process they can follow to get that judgment checked by others, and if necessary acted on. But they can't just cut the parent out of the process based on their personal opinion. That's what this law says, and it's correct.

mlyle 5y ago
> If the teacher really believes the parent is a danger to their children, they have a process they can follow to get that judgment checked by others, and if necessary acted on. Surely there's some kind of continuum between "needs to be immediately removed from the home by the state, with all evidence in hand to demonstrate this" and "will be supportive and react reasonably to something the student is expressing at school." Teachers routinely keep confidences for their kids. We hear about doubts in parents politics, doubts in the choices that have been made for their future, etc. We are expected to help kids express their own opinions and keep those confidences. Outing some trans kids is going to get them thrown out on the street by their parents, beaten, or worse. That's a guaranteed consequence of this law. I think you know that, deep down.
- teakettle42 5y ago
  You seem to believe your views preempt those of your students’ parents. You are exactly the type of educator this law is intended to target — quite necessarily, as your comments demonstrate. > We are expected to help kids express their own opinions and keep those confidences. You should not be keeping secrets from students’ parents in the first place. You are not the parent; it is not your call. > Outing some trans kids is going to get them thrown out on the street by their parents, beaten, or worse. Actual abuse is illegal. Report it through proper channels. You do not get to usurp parental authority simply because you think some parents won’t agree with your politics.
  - mlyle 5y ago
    > You seem to believe your views preempt those of your students’ parents. I'm a parent too. I believe that my kids should be able to be their own people at school. I don't know everything that happens with them there. > You are exactly the type of educator this law is intended to target I don't work for a government entity. But nice try at being vaguely menacing. > You should not be keeping secrets from students’ parents in the first place. I'm just curious if this is what you really think. Anything that happens at school-- anything kids express-- should be rolled up in journal form and provided to the parent? Or is there any role for discretion? > Actual abuse is illegal. Report it through proper channels. Waiting for actual harm sounds bad. And there's plenty of harm that's legal or nearly so: if they want to force the kid to leave home on their 18th birthday because of what I told them, that still sucks.
PuppyTailWags 5y ago
The law says the teacher can cut the parent out of the process when it comes to reporting abusive parenting. The current discussion is that a new, additional law guarantees additional child abuse occurring. Using the guise of "cutting out" the parents from the child's identity navigation is ignoring the fact the child is requesting confidence because of the parent's abusive behavior. There would be no need for confidence except for the knowledge the parent is dangerous to their child. Before one points out there is already child protective services- functionally, child protective services is overwhelmed, underfunded, and overworked. They are shockingly ineffective through little fault of their own.