13 ms·

Steve Jobs, LSD and Drug Freedom

315 points by spking 15y ago

cateye 15y ago
Godwins law is tranforming to Jobs law. All discussions will lead to Steve Jobs.
- jgrahamc 15y ago
  Not really. This is little more than the media using Steve Jobs' death as a hook for whatever particular story they are writing or comment they wish to make. It too will pass.
jgrahamc 15y ago
I wish that his article had delved more into the long term effects (benefits or otherwise) of taking psychedelic drugs rather than going off into a complaint about US drug policy. Anyone got interesting, concrete data to share rather than anecdotes about Steve Jobs?
- davidw 15y ago
  > a complaint about US drug policy. That would be indicative of an article about politics, which would be better off on some other site for the discussions of US politics and laws.
- icebraining 15y ago
  As usual, Erowid[1] has plenty of interesting content; particularly, the References Database[2] has many papers about the subject. [1]: http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/lsd/lsd.shtml http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/lsd/lsd.shtml [2]: http://www.erowid.org/references/refs.php?A=SearchAll&AndOr=OR&Title=lsd+long+term&Author=lsd+long+term&Abstract=lsd+long+term&OldSort=DPubD&NewSort=&Max=100&S=lsd&SField=All http://www.erowid.org/references/refs.php?A=SearchAll&An...
- DavidChouinard 15y ago
  "I take illegal drugs for inspiration", paper by Dr. Sue Blackmore is a fascinating read: http://www.susanblackmore.co.uk/journalism/telegraphdrugs.htm http://www.susanblackmore.co.uk/journalism/telegraphdrugs.ht...
- Alex3917 15y ago
  "Anyone got interesting, concrete data to share rather than anecdotes about Steve Jobs?" Here are all of the Johns Hopkins studies on psilocybin: http://csp.org/psilocybin/ http://csp.org/psilocybin/ You might also be interested in going to Horizons if you're going to be in NYC this coming weekend: http://www.horizonsnyc.org http://www.horizonsnyc.org It's all of the talks on the latest scientific research on psychedelics for therapeutic use. You can also watch many of their previous talks here: http://vimeo.com/horizons http://vimeo.com/horizons As well as many of the talks from the huge MAPS conference that took place last April: http://www.maps.org/media/videos/ http://www.maps.org/media/videos/ If you're looking to read any books on this, a couple I'd recommend would be: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1594774021/erowid-20 http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1594774021/erowid-20 http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1594772509/erowid-20 http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1594772509/erowid-20 http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0892819278/erowid-20 http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0892819278/erowid-20 I have an entire page with many more links to this stuff, but it's on Squidoo so if I linked to it then my comment would be auto-deleted. Heh. edit: Changed Amazon links to donate affiliate fees to Erowid
  - gwern 15y ago
    Those psilocybin studies are the same ones which led to the study OP cites about psychedelics increasing Openness to experience (https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Openness_to_experience https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Openness_to_e...), incidentally.
  - jessriedel 15y ago
    All the studies I've seen either have to do with safety, perceived benefit (self-evaluated), or effect on attitude (openness) as measured by a survey. Do you know of any studies which identify an objectively measurable positive benefit to the subjets? For example: decreased risk of suicide, decreased risk of divorce, increased likelihood of solving a long-standing problem, increased success at work, etc.
    - Alex3917 15y ago
      "Do you know of any studies which identify an objectively measurable positive benefit to the subjets?" Deciding whether something is objectively measurable or not has thousands of years worth of philosophical baggage, so I can't really say whether any of these will meet your definition, but for what it's worth: - Using LSD to treat alcoholism - Using ibogaine to treat opiate addiction: http://vimeo.com/20118700 http://vimeo.com/20118700 - Using psilocybin to treat smoking: http://vimeo.com/15913255 http://vimeo.com/15913255 - Self-evaluated life quality in psychedelic drug users vs. non-users: http://www.maps.org/videos/source4/video12.html http://www.maps.org/videos/source4/video12.html - Using MDMA for PTSD: http://www.oprah.com/health/PTSD-and-MDMA-Therapy-Medical-Uses-of-Ecstasy/print/1 http://www.oprah.com/health/PTSD-and-MDMA-Therapy-Medical-Us... - Using LSD / Psilocybin for cluster headaches: http://vimeo.com/10918637 http://vimeo.com/10918637 - Using LSD for solving long-standing problems. (James Fadiman discusses this in his book that I linked to, and I think also here: http://www.maps.org/videos/source4/video5.html. http://www.maps.org/videos/source4/video5.html.)
- JonnieCache 15y ago
  Here's a Google Tech Talk on "Mainstreaming Psychedelics," from the director of MAPS. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NwAGkGpv6Ss http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NwAGkGpv6Ss
- rsanheim 15y ago
  I see other posters have covered the benefits quite well, of which there are many. One possible drawback is HPPD: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hallucinogen_persisting_perception_disorder http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hallucinogen_persisting_percept...
melling 15y ago
I've never used illegal drugs, and I've never had a desire. However, the one problem we do have by keeping certain drugs illegal is that Americans are destroying countries, like Mexico, where a week doesn't by where a drug gang hasn't killed someone. Illegal drug money is used to finance so much corruption and killing, that there seems to be little value in keeping them illegal, especially considering that everyone who wants to take drugs still does. If certain drugs do have harmful effects then at least the effects will be mostly limited to the people who take them.
- geogra4 15y ago
  College students are surrounded by drugs. They flow so freely that it seems like prohibition isn't really working. People who want drugs can get them. I don't do them either, nor do I have the desire but it just seems like only the poor and disadvantaged drug users go to jail.
  - jinushaun 15y ago
    Exactly. If people want drugs, they can get it, but not everyone does. We've already reached equilibrium drug consumption, which is why it's ludicrous to believe that drug use will skyrocket once it is legalized. The current drug policy only serves to fill up jails with those not in the middle class.
    - randomdata 15y ago
      In Canada, the statistics for illicit drug use almost mirror the statistics for tobacco use; a legal substance. At this point, it is not even clear what we are attempting to solve by the legislation.
    - Jage 15y ago
      I support legalization for ideaological reasons, but that doesn't at all sound accurate to me Drug use will almost definitely sky rocket if drugs are legalized, at least initially. We can't really say what will happen, say, 5-10 years after, because legalization in this country is unprecedented. But ask most users if they'd use more if it was legal, and you'll get your answer. Ask some fence sitters who are too scared to try drugs if they'd use currently illicit drugs if it was legal, and you'll get your answer
rwmj 15y ago
I've taken LSD and 'shrooms a few times, and while I can understand what Jobs is saying, I think he was wrong. I had mystical experiences where I thought I understood that the whole world was connected together, and I was connected to the world, and other deep insights. I think this was just brain-addled delusion, not any insight into how things really are. That said, I fully support these things being legal, and (for people who aren't naturally anxious) trying them with a good "set" and "setting".
- tomelders 15y ago
  I too have taken LSD. Microdots were prevalent circa 1995 in South Yorkshire, which were strong to the point of not being funny. However, I did manage to get my grubby little junkie mitts on a few paper trips which were a lot more pleasant. My own personal view that it did change the way I look at the world in some strange and indescribable ways and the experiences made a large contribution to the person I am today, for better and for worse. I never had any grand epiphanies though, but I had some really good times. I also had some truly horrible times which resulted in some pretty strange phobias that I'm only just starting to get over, but I wouldn't say they've had any noticeable affect on my life. The moral of the story? There is no moral to this story.
  - deleted 15y ago
    [deleted]
  - wellsaid 15y ago
    You really put it accurately. When I came to psychedelics I had expectations and excitement and stuff. It didn't turned out exactly as expected.
- omarchowdhury 15y ago
  Everything is connected. It is understandable to discard insight on psychedelics as being 'brain-addled delusion' if the materialistic supposition is already implanted. Furthermore, such insight is usually overwhelming with assimilation into baseline consciousness being difficult. However, the same mystical states have been achieved by many without the use of drugs - a gradual onset over a lifetime of discipline.
jinushaun 15y ago
The article is all over the place and somewhat poorly written, but I generally agree with the overall premise before I even clicked the link: America's drug policy of prohibition is a waste of time, money and resources.
brudgers 15y ago
[edit because absurdity is apparently not obvious] By the author's logic,[/edit] perhaps people should consider putting their children up for adoption, too. However, I suspect that moving to Silicon Valley would be more likely to provide them with opportunities for success.
- kahawe 15y ago
  > Perhaps people should consider putting their children up for adoption, too. Well, from the (very cynic) view of an armchair psychologist, one of the possible consequences of a child losing their parents can be a subconscious feeling of inferiority, of not being wanted, of not being good enough, ever. Depending on "temperament" and character, this kid could suffer from severe depressions all their life and never achieve anything or they could react to this by starting to heavily over-compensate and trying to be very successful and powerful. So, yes, if you want to put it like that... scarring an unsuspecting kid for life like this might just ultimately yield you another CEO hero, however unlikely. Work, power and success can be a very potent drug and/or replacement. Not all motivations in life are positive, nourishing and healthy. Even very self-destructive tendencies could at the same time yield you tremendous (outside visible) "success", status and money.
- jhamburger 15y ago
  The author's logic isn't "Steve Jobs took LSD, you should too", it's "Steve Jobs took LSD and credits it as a crucially important intellectual experience in his life, so maybe you should too." I'm pretty sure Jobs didn't say the same thing about being adopted.
  - brudgers 15y ago
    The author's argument is more along the lines of: P1 = Steve Jobs was a success. P2 = Steve Jobs took LSD. ------- Therefore US drug policy is bad.
sjtgraham 15y ago
Jobs was one of a kind, and to attribute his achievements even in part, to hallucinogens is a fallacy. If it was true, there would be more people like Steve Jobs in the world today. I think Steve was wrong on this, as he was wrong on other things, i.e. that pancreatic cancer could be treated with a special diet. Maybe if Steve sought medical attention earlier he would still be with us today changing the world.
- euroclydon 15y ago
  My dad died nine months after being diagnosed with Pancreatic Cancer, which was three months longer than expected. Steve Jobs died years later, after the Whipple Surgery and a liver transplant.
  - scarmig 15y ago
    Slightly different situation, as Steve Jobs had an extremely rare form of pancreatic cancer that is much less fatal than the common one, that he chose not to treat thereby making it fatal.
  - sjtgraham 15y ago
    I'm sorry for you loss. Jobs had a rare type of pancreatic cancer, islet cell neuroendocrine tumour, which accounts for ~1.3% of cases. With early enough treatment, the prognosis for this type of cancer is much better than other types of pancreatic cancer.
    - euroclydon 15y ago
      Ah, didn't know that. Thanks.
- ldh 15y ago
  The man himself asserted that certain experiences are integral to his outlook, and by extension a certain measure of his success. Maybe you don't like how he came by those experiences - so what? What fallacy is being committed here? I wouldn't conflate his position on hallucinogens with his opinion on alternative medicine. He doesn't have to be either all right or all wrong.
wheels 15y ago
Incidentally, despite the oft quoted, "Bill Gates would be a broader guy if he had dropped acid once", Bill Gates basically did admit to taking LSD in a 1994 interview: PLAYBOY: Ever take LSD? GATES: My errant youth ended a long time ago. PLAYBOY: What does that mean? GATES: That means there were things I did under the age of 25 that I ended up not doing subsequently. PLAYBOY: One LSD story involved you staring at a table and thinking the corner was going to plunge into your eye. GATES: [Smiles] PLAYBOY: Ah, a glimmer of recognition. GATES: That was on the other side of that boundary. The young mind can deal with certain kinds of gooping around that I don't think at this age I could. I don't think you're as capable of handling lack of sleep or whatever challenges you throw at your body as you get older. However, I never missed a day of work. http://beginnersinvest.about.com/od/billgates/l/blbillgatesint5.htm http://beginnersinvest.about.com/od/billgates/l/blbillgatesi...
- cbs 15y ago
  Incidentally, despite the oft quoted, "Bill Gates would be a broader guy if he had dropped acid once", Bill Gates basically did admit to taking LSD in a 1994 interview: As with most drugs, those who don't wear the uniform of the subculture associated the drug (or at least strongly show the personality traits their users like to attribute to the drug) are assumed to never have done them.
  - bdunbar 15y ago
    The reverse is true, as well. My favorite 'after work' pullover in cool weather is a Baja hoodie. Found out a few days ago this is garb that is associated with stoners at the high school: it's nickname is 'drug rug'. I now understand the stink eye the school cop used to give me. And why a guy at a truck stop assumed that I - a middle-aged white guy with three kids in tow - might have something illegal he needed to see him through his overnight run.
- SkyMarshal 15y ago
  I've never done LSD but the stories I hear from people I have are sometimes hillarious. I heard one where a guy thought he was a glass of orange juice, and was terrified of laying down b/c he was afraid he'd pour himself out. Another was a bit less creative but no less scary - a giant spider eating his leg from the foot up. I have to say, neither is particularly something I want to experience...
drivebyacct2 15y ago
I will never understand how HN manages to be so (maybe relatively) anti-drug, even in a latent fashion on this topic. I do, not, understand this sentiment. For all of the things that HN does not take at face value, there is a blind acceptance of the "drugs are evil" viewpoint espoused (often exclusively in the face of their own studies, dozens of times, over 20 years) by the United States Government. Downvote within 3 minutes, immediate comments touting how evil and unhealthy they are (which for the majority of lower level drugs are simply untrue, but you wouldn't know that unless you thought for yourself and read the literature). Maybe I should clarify, there is an unusually large amount of effort that seems to be exuded in terms of keeping others from taking drugs, either through culture, pressure or laws than I am used to expecting on HN.
- bbgm 15y ago
  They may not be evil, but they aren't particularly good for you either
  - garethsprice 15y ago
    You could say the same about chocolate cake.
    - dualogy 15y ago
      Sugar, you're right. Natural organic unsweetened dark chocolate "in moderation"? No concerns, antioxidant, aphrodisiac etc. pp.
  - nate_meurer 15y ago
    To what drugs are you referring, exactly? And what does "particularly good" mean? The whole point of the article is Jobs' claim that some experience with hallucinogens was, in fact, particularly good for him.
  - ldh 15y ago
    All illegal drugs are not equivalent simply because they happen to be currently illegal. Some of them aren't even particularly bad for you.
nihilocrat 15y ago
Reminds me of Carl Sagan's musings on marijuana usage.
- deleted 15y ago
  [deleted]
naner 15y ago
Sam Harris on LSD: http://www.samharris.org/blog/item/drugs-and-the-meaning-of-life/ http://www.samharris.org/blog/item/drugs-and-the-meaning-of-...
- saturdaysaint 15y ago
  Great article. I've gone back to that thought "Everything we do is to alter our consciousness" since my first highs. I went to a church for a concert recently and I was struck with the lengths these people went to in order to alter their consciousness without "drugs". Highly emotionally charged speakers work everyone up. Food and coffee are practically fetishized. There's a nice (albeit kind of unnatural/forced) sense of community that hits certain primal emotional triggers. So yeah, everyone's trying to altering their consciousness.
cletus 15y ago
So is this the pattern we can expect for the coming months? HN posts titled "Steve Jobs and [insert my agenda here]"? I realize when you want publicity for your cause, startup, whatever you tie it to something else that's in the news anyway but all these "Steve Jobs and X" posts are bordering on tacky or tasteless. Although at least this isn't as bad as Stallman's truly tasteless rant.
kristofferR 15y ago
Tim Ferris does a high dose of mushrooms (psilocybin) once a year. He says that each trip has had a major positive impact for several months and solved a major problem in his life. http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/17192634 http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/17192634 @ 0:33:42
Hitchhiker 15y ago
http://homepage.mac.com/mseffie/handouts/hindsight.html http://homepage.mac.com/mseffie/handouts/hindsight.html
- kr1shna 15y ago
  and the relevance to this article is?
sthulbourn 15y ago
RUMOUR: Apple to start selling iLSD.
spinchange 15y ago
As a young man, I took psychedelics several times under the pretense of mind expansion. Looking back, I think the things I've read (and internalized), relationships I've had, and just generally "getting out of my comfort zone" had a more formative effect on my outlook than any chemicals. If you want to use them, that's fine. But I would hate to think a young hacker reading this stuff felt like he needed to use psychedelics. The notion that dropping acid was one of the two or three most important things Steve Jobs had done in his life seems a bit...reality distorting.
Enthusiastic 15y ago
The apple logo itself could be taken as a symbol of accepting psychedelic insight. A bite of the forbidden apple. When talking about Steve Jobs and LSD, we should consider the work of Myron Stolaroff and his associates. LSD can be used in anything from satanic orgies to mystical new age woo to CIA mind control experiments to creative technical problem solving. The branch of the psychedelic family tree SJ plucked his apple from is related to Myron Stolaroff's work on creative and technical problem solving. Article by Myron Stolaroff on using psychedelics wisely: http://www.erowid.org/psychoactives/writings/stolaroff_using.shtml http://www.erowid.org/psychoactives/writings/stolaroff_using... Podcast featuring early psychedelic researcher James Fadiman "Using Psychedelics to solve technical and scientific problems" http://beemp3.com/download.php?file=3226003&song=042-Fadiman+Using+Psychedelics+to+Solve+Technical+and+Scientific+Problems http://beemp3.com/download.php?file=3226003&song=042-Fad... Article mostly about Al Hubbard (fascinating reading in it's own right), which connects Steve Jobs to Myron Stolaroff's advocacy of LSD among engineers and technologists: http://kikoshouse.blogspot.com/2009/10/alfred-captain-al-hubbard-appreciation.html http://kikoshouse.blogspot.com/2009/10/alfred-captain-al-hub... And finally, a 1960s study about LSD and creative problem solving (by Stolaroff, Fadiman, et al) "Psychedelic Agents in Creative Problem Solving: A pilot study" http://www.erowid.org/references/texts/show/7609docid6734 http://www.erowid.org/references/texts/show/7609docid6734
bdunbar 15y ago
It’s fascinating to juxtapose America’s reverence for Steve Jobs’ accomplishments and its draconian drug policy The author confuses American government policy with American citizens.
kr1shna 15y ago
Okay, so the article has some valid arguments. But why use Steve Jobs to make a point about drugs?
andrewparker 15y ago
For anyone who is interested in the article, I strongly recommend reading "What the Dormouse Said" by John Markoff: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/What_the_Dormouse_Said http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/What_the_Dormouse_Said It's about how the counter-culture attitude of the 60s helped inspire the PC wave of innovation. Drug use is one of the core topics, but it is not romanticized. The book is very "matter of fact" in its analysis of how drugs were involved in the evolution of the PC.
mannicken 15y ago
There might be some truth to Steve Jobs' view of LSD. There have been studies that link psychedelics and aesthetics: http://yourlife.usatoday.com/health/story/2011-09-29/Magic-mushroom-drug-may-improve-personality-long-term/50602264/1 http://yourlife.usatoday.com/health/story/2011-09-29/Magic-m... I'd say LSD is like steroids for artists/designers/creative people or Adderall/Ritalin for students. Sure it won't make you creative overnight but it will reaaalllly help, and it's kind of dangerous. Most of the danger comes from illegality, of course :) It is just a lot easier to come up with new ideas when your mind is open and sketchbook seems to be a direct extension of your brain, where you can just 'think' ideas with pencil.
akamaka 15y ago
Since this article brings up an LSD anecdote from Steve Jobs, I'll add one from someone who is not famous at all, but which I think is no less useful. A few weeks ago, I spotted two men fighting outside of a bar. The older man got violently pushed to the ground, and I went up to him to see if he was okay, and ask him what had happened. He rambled on for a while, telling me that dropping acid in the early 1970s was one of the most important experiences he had ever had. It put him in touch with a higher dimension, and he would sometimes receive messages from there. The reason people beat him up sometimes, he explained, was that he spoke the truth, directly as God sent it to him, and that people didn't like hearing the truth. Make up your own mind about LSD, but try to take into account more than one data point!

315 points by spking 15y ago

cateye 15y ago

Godwins law is tranforming to Jobs law. All discussions will lead to Steve Jobs.

jgrahamc 15y ago
Not really. This is little more than the media using Steve Jobs' death as a hook for whatever particular story they are writing or comment they wish to make. It too will pass.

jgrahamc 15y ago

I wish that his article had delved more into the long term effects (benefits or otherwise) of taking psychedelic drugs rather than going off into a complaint about US drug policy. Anyone got interesting, concrete data to share rather than anecdotes about Steve Jobs?

davidw 15y ago
> a complaint about US drug policy. That would be indicative of an article about politics, which would be better off on some other site for the discussions of US politics and laws.
icebraining 15y ago
As usual, Erowid[1] has plenty of interesting content; particularly, the References Database[2] has many papers about the subject. [1]: http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/lsd/lsd.shtml http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/lsd/lsd.shtml [2]: http://www.erowid.org/references/refs.php?A=SearchAll&AndOr=OR&Title=lsd+long+term&Author=lsd+long+term&Abstract=lsd+long+term&OldSort=DPubD&NewSort=&Max=100&S=lsd&SField=All http://www.erowid.org/references/refs.php?A=SearchAll&An...
DavidChouinard 15y ago
"I take illegal drugs for inspiration", paper by Dr. Sue Blackmore is a fascinating read: http://www.susanblackmore.co.uk/journalism/telegraphdrugs.htm http://www.susanblackmore.co.uk/journalism/telegraphdrugs.ht...
Alex3917 15y ago
"Anyone got interesting, concrete data to share rather than anecdotes about Steve Jobs?" Here are all of the Johns Hopkins studies on psilocybin: http://csp.org/psilocybin/ http://csp.org/psilocybin/ You might also be interested in going to Horizons if you're going to be in NYC this coming weekend: http://www.horizonsnyc.org http://www.horizonsnyc.org It's all of the talks on the latest scientific research on psychedelics for therapeutic use. You can also watch many of their previous talks here: http://vimeo.com/horizons http://vimeo.com/horizons As well as many of the talks from the huge MAPS conference that took place last April: http://www.maps.org/media/videos/ http://www.maps.org/media/videos/ If you're looking to read any books on this, a couple I'd recommend would be: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1594774021/erowid-20 http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1594774021/erowid-20 http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1594772509/erowid-20 http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1594772509/erowid-20 http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0892819278/erowid-20 http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0892819278/erowid-20 I have an entire page with many more links to this stuff, but it's on Squidoo so if I linked to it then my comment would be auto-deleted. Heh. edit: Changed Amazon links to donate affiliate fees to Erowid
- gwern 15y ago
  Those psilocybin studies are the same ones which led to the study OP cites about psychedelics increasing Openness to experience (https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Openness_to_experience https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Openness_to_e...), incidentally.
- jessriedel 15y ago
  All the studies I've seen either have to do with safety, perceived benefit (self-evaluated), or effect on attitude (openness) as measured by a survey. Do you know of any studies which identify an objectively measurable positive benefit to the subjets? For example: decreased risk of suicide, decreased risk of divorce, increased likelihood of solving a long-standing problem, increased success at work, etc.
  - Alex3917 15y ago
    "Do you know of any studies which identify an objectively measurable positive benefit to the subjets?" Deciding whether something is objectively measurable or not has thousands of years worth of philosophical baggage, so I can't really say whether any of these will meet your definition, but for what it's worth: - Using LSD to treat alcoholism - Using ibogaine to treat opiate addiction: http://vimeo.com/20118700 http://vimeo.com/20118700 - Using psilocybin to treat smoking: http://vimeo.com/15913255 http://vimeo.com/15913255 - Self-evaluated life quality in psychedelic drug users vs. non-users: http://www.maps.org/videos/source4/video12.html http://www.maps.org/videos/source4/video12.html - Using MDMA for PTSD: http://www.oprah.com/health/PTSD-and-MDMA-Therapy-Medical-Uses-of-Ecstasy/print/1 http://www.oprah.com/health/PTSD-and-MDMA-Therapy-Medical-Us... - Using LSD / Psilocybin for cluster headaches: http://vimeo.com/10918637 http://vimeo.com/10918637 - Using LSD for solving long-standing problems. (James Fadiman discusses this in his book that I linked to, and I think also here: http://www.maps.org/videos/source4/video5.html. http://www.maps.org/videos/source4/video5.html.)
JonnieCache 15y ago
Here's a Google Tech Talk on "Mainstreaming Psychedelics," from the director of MAPS. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NwAGkGpv6Ss http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NwAGkGpv6Ss
rsanheim 15y ago
I see other posters have covered the benefits quite well, of which there are many. One possible drawback is HPPD: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hallucinogen_persisting_perception_disorder http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hallucinogen_persisting_percept...

melling 15y ago

I've never used illegal drugs, and I've never had a desire. However, the one problem we do have by keeping certain drugs illegal is that Americans are destroying countries, like Mexico, where a week doesn't by where a drug gang hasn't killed someone. Illegal drug money is used to finance so much corruption and killing, that there seems to be little value in keeping them illegal, especially considering that everyone who wants to take drugs still does. If certain drugs do have harmful effects then at least the effects will be mostly limited to the people who take them.

geogra4 15y ago
College students are surrounded by drugs. They flow so freely that it seems like prohibition isn't really working. People who want drugs can get them. I don't do them either, nor do I have the desire but it just seems like only the poor and disadvantaged drug users go to jail.
- jinushaun 15y ago
  Exactly. If people want drugs, they can get it, but not everyone does. We've already reached equilibrium drug consumption, which is why it's ludicrous to believe that drug use will skyrocket once it is legalized. The current drug policy only serves to fill up jails with those not in the middle class.
  - randomdata 15y ago
    In Canada, the statistics for illicit drug use almost mirror the statistics for tobacco use; a legal substance. At this point, it is not even clear what we are attempting to solve by the legislation.
  - Jage 15y ago
    I support legalization for ideaological reasons, but that doesn't at all sound accurate to me Drug use will almost definitely sky rocket if drugs are legalized, at least initially. We can't really say what will happen, say, 5-10 years after, because legalization in this country is unprecedented. But ask most users if they'd use more if it was legal, and you'll get your answer. Ask some fence sitters who are too scared to try drugs if they'd use currently illicit drugs if it was legal, and you'll get your answer

rwmj 15y ago

I've taken LSD and 'shrooms a few times, and while I can understand what Jobs is saying, I think he was wrong. I had mystical experiences where I thought I understood that the whole world was connected together, and I was connected to the world, and other deep insights. I think this was just brain-addled delusion, not any insight into how things really are. That said, I fully support these things being legal, and (for people who aren't naturally anxious) trying them with a good "set" and "setting".

tomelders 15y ago
I too have taken LSD. Microdots were prevalent circa 1995 in South Yorkshire, which were strong to the point of not being funny. However, I did manage to get my grubby little junkie mitts on a few paper trips which were a lot more pleasant. My own personal view that it did change the way I look at the world in some strange and indescribable ways and the experiences made a large contribution to the person I am today, for better and for worse. I never had any grand epiphanies though, but I had some really good times. I also had some truly horrible times which resulted in some pretty strange phobias that I'm only just starting to get over, but I wouldn't say they've had any noticeable affect on my life. The moral of the story? There is no moral to this story.
- deleted 15y ago
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- wellsaid 15y ago
  You really put it accurately. When I came to psychedelics I had expectations and excitement and stuff. It didn't turned out exactly as expected.
omarchowdhury 15y ago
Everything is connected. It is understandable to discard insight on psychedelics as being 'brain-addled delusion' if the materialistic supposition is already implanted. Furthermore, such insight is usually overwhelming with assimilation into baseline consciousness being difficult. However, the same mystical states have been achieved by many without the use of drugs - a gradual onset over a lifetime of discipline.

jinushaun 15y ago

The article is all over the place and somewhat poorly written, but I generally agree with the overall premise before I even clicked the link: America's drug policy of prohibition is a waste of time, money and resources.

brudgers 15y ago

[edit because absurdity is apparently not obvious] By the author's logic,[/edit] perhaps people should consider putting their children up for adoption, too. However, I suspect that moving to Silicon Valley would be more likely to provide them with opportunities for success.

kahawe 15y ago
> Perhaps people should consider putting their children up for adoption, too. Well, from the (very cynic) view of an armchair psychologist, one of the possible consequences of a child losing their parents can be a subconscious feeling of inferiority, of not being wanted, of not being good enough, ever. Depending on "temperament" and character, this kid could suffer from severe depressions all their life and never achieve anything or they could react to this by starting to heavily over-compensate and trying to be very successful and powerful. So, yes, if you want to put it like that... scarring an unsuspecting kid for life like this might just ultimately yield you another CEO hero, however unlikely. Work, power and success can be a very potent drug and/or replacement. Not all motivations in life are positive, nourishing and healthy. Even very self-destructive tendencies could at the same time yield you tremendous (outside visible) "success", status and money.
jhamburger 15y ago
The author's logic isn't "Steve Jobs took LSD, you should too", it's "Steve Jobs took LSD and credits it as a crucially important intellectual experience in his life, so maybe you should too." I'm pretty sure Jobs didn't say the same thing about being adopted.
- brudgers 15y ago
  The author's argument is more along the lines of: P1 = Steve Jobs was a success. P2 = Steve Jobs took LSD. ------- Therefore US drug policy is bad.

sjtgraham 15y ago

Jobs was one of a kind, and to attribute his achievements even in part, to hallucinogens is a fallacy. If it was true, there would be more people like Steve Jobs in the world today. I think Steve was wrong on this, as he was wrong on other things, i.e. that pancreatic cancer could be treated with a special diet. Maybe if Steve sought medical attention earlier he would still be with us today changing the world.

euroclydon 15y ago
My dad died nine months after being diagnosed with Pancreatic Cancer, which was three months longer than expected. Steve Jobs died years later, after the Whipple Surgery and a liver transplant.
- scarmig 15y ago
  Slightly different situation, as Steve Jobs had an extremely rare form of pancreatic cancer that is much less fatal than the common one, that he chose not to treat thereby making it fatal.
- sjtgraham 15y ago
  I'm sorry for you loss. Jobs had a rare type of pancreatic cancer, islet cell neuroendocrine tumour, which accounts for ~1.3% of cases. With early enough treatment, the prognosis for this type of cancer is much better than other types of pancreatic cancer.
  - euroclydon 15y ago
    Ah, didn't know that. Thanks.
ldh 15y ago
The man himself asserted that certain experiences are integral to his outlook, and by extension a certain measure of his success. Maybe you don't like how he came by those experiences - so what? What fallacy is being committed here? I wouldn't conflate his position on hallucinogens with his opinion on alternative medicine. He doesn't have to be either all right or all wrong.

wheels 15y ago

Incidentally, despite the oft quoted, "Bill Gates would be a broader guy if he had dropped acid once", Bill Gates basically did admit to taking LSD in a 1994 interview: PLAYBOY: Ever take LSD? GATES: My errant youth ended a long time ago. PLAYBOY: What does that mean? GATES: That means there were things I did under the age of 25 that I ended up not doing subsequently. PLAYBOY: One LSD story involved you staring at a table and thinking the corner was going to plunge into your eye. GATES: [Smiles] PLAYBOY: Ah, a glimmer of recognition. GATES: That was on the other side of that boundary. The young mind can deal with certain kinds of gooping around that I don't think at this age I could. I don't think you're as capable of handling lack of sleep or whatever challenges you throw at your body as you get older. However, I never missed a day of work. http://beginnersinvest.about.com/od/billgates/l/blbillgatesint5.htm http://beginnersinvest.about.com/od/billgates/l/blbillgatesi...

cbs 15y ago
Incidentally, despite the oft quoted, "Bill Gates would be a broader guy if he had dropped acid once", Bill Gates basically did admit to taking LSD in a 1994 interview: As with most drugs, those who don't wear the uniform of the subculture associated the drug (or at least strongly show the personality traits their users like to attribute to the drug) are assumed to never have done them.
- bdunbar 15y ago
  The reverse is true, as well. My favorite 'after work' pullover in cool weather is a Baja hoodie. Found out a few days ago this is garb that is associated with stoners at the high school: it's nickname is 'drug rug'. I now understand the stink eye the school cop used to give me. And why a guy at a truck stop assumed that I - a middle-aged white guy with three kids in tow - might have something illegal he needed to see him through his overnight run.
SkyMarshal 15y ago
I've never done LSD but the stories I hear from people I have are sometimes hillarious. I heard one where a guy thought he was a glass of orange juice, and was terrified of laying down b/c he was afraid he'd pour himself out. Another was a bit less creative but no less scary - a giant spider eating his leg from the foot up. I have to say, neither is particularly something I want to experience...

drivebyacct2 15y ago

I will never understand how HN manages to be so (maybe relatively) anti-drug, even in a latent fashion on this topic. I do, not, understand this sentiment. For all of the things that HN does not take at face value, there is a blind acceptance of the "drugs are evil" viewpoint espoused (often exclusively in the face of their own studies, dozens of times, over 20 years) by the United States Government. Downvote within 3 minutes, immediate comments touting how evil and unhealthy they are (which for the majority of lower level drugs are simply untrue, but you wouldn't know that unless you thought for yourself and read the literature). Maybe I should clarify, there is an unusually large amount of effort that seems to be exuded in terms of keeping others from taking drugs, either through culture, pressure or laws than I am used to expecting on HN.

bbgm 15y ago
They may not be evil, but they aren't particularly good for you either
- garethsprice 15y ago
  You could say the same about chocolate cake.
  - dualogy 15y ago
    Sugar, you're right. Natural organic unsweetened dark chocolate "in moderation"? No concerns, antioxidant, aphrodisiac etc. pp.
- nate_meurer 15y ago
  To what drugs are you referring, exactly? And what does "particularly good" mean? The whole point of the article is Jobs' claim that some experience with hallucinogens was, in fact, particularly good for him.
- ldh 15y ago
  All illegal drugs are not equivalent simply because they happen to be currently illegal. Some of them aren't even particularly bad for you.

nihilocrat 15y ago

Reminds me of Carl Sagan's musings on marijuana usage.

deleted 15y ago
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naner 15y ago

Sam Harris on LSD: http://www.samharris.org/blog/item/drugs-and-the-meaning-of-life/ http://www.samharris.org/blog/item/drugs-and-the-meaning-of-...

saturdaysaint 15y ago
Great article. I've gone back to that thought "Everything we do is to alter our consciousness" since my first highs. I went to a church for a concert recently and I was struck with the lengths these people went to in order to alter their consciousness without "drugs". Highly emotionally charged speakers work everyone up. Food and coffee are practically fetishized. There's a nice (albeit kind of unnatural/forced) sense of community that hits certain primal emotional triggers. So yeah, everyone's trying to altering their consciousness.

cletus 15y ago

So is this the pattern we can expect for the coming months? HN posts titled "Steve Jobs and [insert my agenda here]"? I realize when you want publicity for your cause, startup, whatever you tie it to something else that's in the news anyway but all these "Steve Jobs and X" posts are bordering on tacky or tasteless. Although at least this isn't as bad as Stallman's truly tasteless rant.

kristofferR 15y ago

Tim Ferris does a high dose of mushrooms (psilocybin) once a year. He says that each trip has had a major positive impact for several months and solved a major problem in his life. http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/17192634 http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/17192634 @ 0:33:42

Hitchhiker 15y ago

http://homepage.mac.com/mseffie/handouts/hindsight.html http://homepage.mac.com/mseffie/handouts/hindsight.html

kr1shna 15y ago
and the relevance to this article is?

sthulbourn 15y ago

RUMOUR: Apple to start selling iLSD.

spinchange 15y ago

As a young man, I took psychedelics several times under the pretense of mind expansion. Looking back, I think the things I've read (and internalized), relationships I've had, and just generally "getting out of my comfort zone" had a more formative effect on my outlook than any chemicals. If you want to use them, that's fine. But I would hate to think a young hacker reading this stuff felt like he needed to use psychedelics. The notion that dropping acid was one of the two or three most important things Steve Jobs had done in his life seems a bit...reality distorting.

Enthusiastic 15y ago

The apple logo itself could be taken as a symbol of accepting psychedelic insight. A bite of the forbidden apple. When talking about Steve Jobs and LSD, we should consider the work of Myron Stolaroff and his associates. LSD can be used in anything from satanic orgies to mystical new age woo to CIA mind control experiments to creative technical problem solving. The branch of the psychedelic family tree SJ plucked his apple from is related to Myron Stolaroff's work on creative and technical problem solving. Article by Myron Stolaroff on using psychedelics wisely: http://www.erowid.org/psychoactives/writings/stolaroff_using.shtml http://www.erowid.org/psychoactives/writings/stolaroff_using... Podcast featuring early psychedelic researcher James Fadiman "Using Psychedelics to solve technical and scientific problems" http://beemp3.com/download.php?file=3226003&song=042-Fadiman+Using+Psychedelics+to+Solve+Technical+and+Scientific+Problems http://beemp3.com/download.php?file=3226003&song=042-Fad... Article mostly about Al Hubbard (fascinating reading in it's own right), which connects Steve Jobs to Myron Stolaroff's advocacy of LSD among engineers and technologists: http://kikoshouse.blogspot.com/2009/10/alfred-captain-al-hubbard-appreciation.html http://kikoshouse.blogspot.com/2009/10/alfred-captain-al-hub... And finally, a 1960s study about LSD and creative problem solving (by Stolaroff, Fadiman, et al) "Psychedelic Agents in Creative Problem Solving: A pilot study" http://www.erowid.org/references/texts/show/7609docid6734 http://www.erowid.org/references/texts/show/7609docid6734

bdunbar 15y ago

It’s fascinating to juxtapose America’s reverence for Steve Jobs’ accomplishments and its draconian drug policy The author confuses American government policy with American citizens.

kr1shna 15y ago

Okay, so the article has some valid arguments. But why use Steve Jobs to make a point about drugs?

andrewparker 15y ago

For anyone who is interested in the article, I strongly recommend reading "What the Dormouse Said" by John Markoff: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/What_the_Dormouse_Said http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/What_the_Dormouse_Said It's about how the counter-culture attitude of the 60s helped inspire the PC wave of innovation. Drug use is one of the core topics, but it is not romanticized. The book is very "matter of fact" in its analysis of how drugs were involved in the evolution of the PC.

mannicken 15y ago

There might be some truth to Steve Jobs' view of LSD. There have been studies that link psychedelics and aesthetics: http://yourlife.usatoday.com/health/story/2011-09-29/Magic-mushroom-drug-may-improve-personality-long-term/50602264/1 http://yourlife.usatoday.com/health/story/2011-09-29/Magic-m... I'd say LSD is like steroids for artists/designers/creative people or Adderall/Ritalin for students. Sure it won't make you creative overnight but it will reaaalllly help, and it's kind of dangerous. Most of the danger comes from illegality, of course :) It is just a lot easier to come up with new ideas when your mind is open and sketchbook seems to be a direct extension of your brain, where you can just 'think' ideas with pencil.

akamaka 15y ago

Since this article brings up an LSD anecdote from Steve Jobs, I'll add one from someone who is not famous at all, but which I think is no less useful. A few weeks ago, I spotted two men fighting outside of a bar. The older man got violently pushed to the ground, and I went up to him to see if he was okay, and ask him what had happened. He rambled on for a while, telling me that dropping acid in the early 1970s was one of the most important experiences he had ever had. It put him in touch with a higher dimension, and he would sometimes receive messages from there. The reason people beat him up sometimes, he explained, was that he spoke the truth, directly as God sent it to him, and that people didn't like hearing the truth. Make up your own mind about LSD, but try to take into account more than one data point!