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Trying to give it the article a more positive reading: at least for myself, I can imagine several opinions I could express in the United States which would coun

Trying to give it the article a more positive reading: at least for myself, I can imagine several opinions I could express in the United States which would count as "heresy". I'd imagine that if those opinions were said out loud (whether or not I really believed them) my employers would fire me, friends would unfriend me, etc. But, I can't really think of any supporting real-world stories where that reaction wouldn't be justified. There are two that come to mind: - Justine Sacco, the woman who was fired for tweeting a joke that she hoped she wouldn't get AIDS on her trip to Africa. I don't think the joke is necessarily indicative of some deep inner evil, but the lady was a PR exec; it does tend to indicate that she was probably dangerously incompetent at her actual job. Firing seems like the right response. - Amy Cooper, the lady in New York who called the police on "an African American man threatening my life" in Central Park. He was a bird-watcher asking her to keep her unleashed dogs under control. Widely reported that she was fired for racism. But again, is this really a case of being fired for heresy? Or could it have perhaps just a case of the employer realizing their employee is a dishonest sack of crap? God knows what kind of havoc a person like this might wreak inside a company. Those two are probably the most widely reported in the past few years. People here are referencing firings in academia; maybe those would give more nuance.

knorker 5y ago
Neither was fired for work performance. I think anything else is a distracting justification, not a reason. James Damore was fired by a mob who boldly proclaimed "I didn't read his manifesto. I didn't have to". None of these firings were for honest reasons, but all just to appease the mob. A mob who at least in the last case didn't bother to even find out what he said. There are many more examples. I could list them on and on, but I'm surprised you've only heard of the two. There was the lady who appeared to scream in a cemetery If those two are truly the only ones you can think of then I'd recommend you google this a bit better, and to read "So you've been publicly shamed". Hell, a year ago you'd be kicked off the internet (social media platforms) as a racist (wat?) for saying the lab leak theory was plausible. And of course then there's the chilling effect.
- prezjordan 5y ago
  James Damore was fired by Google, not a mob. The people at Google who made this decision read his "manifesto."
  - josephcsible 5y ago
    Okay, would saying "a mob bullied Google into firing James Damore" instead be better?
    - joshuamorton 5y ago
      Presumably the executives who fired him are intelligent people who can draw their own conclusions about what he did or didn't say. (I find it revealing that the reaction on HN is fundamentally that Damore was fired by a conspiracy. The executives must actually agree with him but were "bullied" by woke people or something, as though it's not possible that corporate leadership could find what he said problematic).
      - umvi 5y ago
        Corporations kowtow to the demands of Twitter mobs all the time, why should Google be an exception?
        joshuamorton 5y ago
        In terms of firing people who don't deserve to be fired? The thing you're claiming is that the company/decision makers think damore was right (or that his opinion was irrelevant) and fired him only to save face. I don't think that happens regularly. I think sometimes someone points out that an employee is racist and the company fires that employee, but that's not "kowtowing", it's a combination of not working with assholes and taking customer feedback. I don't think the thing you're talking about happens much at all.
        umvi 5y ago
emmelaich 5y ago
> Amy Cooper ... Not saying what she did was justified, but there is more to the story. https://bariweiss.substack.com/p/the-real-story-of-the-central-park https://bariweiss.substack.com/p/the-real-story-of-the-centr... > "May 2020 testimony provided by Jerome Lockett, a black man who said Christian had “aggressively” threatened him in the park. Among the details: “when I saw that video, I thought, I cannot imagine if he approached her the same way how she may have genuinely been afraid for her life.” He continued, “If I wasn’t who I was, I would of [sic] called the police on that guy too.” Also see the talk page for https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_Park_birdwatching_incident https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_Park_birdwatching_inci...

knorker 5y ago

Neither was fired for work performance. I think anything else is a distracting justification, not a reason. James Damore was fired by a mob who boldly proclaimed "I didn't read his manifesto. I didn't have to". None of these firings were for honest reasons, but all just to appease the mob. A mob who at least in the last case didn't bother to even find out what he said. There are many more examples. I could list them on and on, but I'm surprised you've only heard of the two. There was the lady who appeared to scream in a cemetery If those two are truly the only ones you can think of then I'd recommend you google this a bit better, and to read "So you've been publicly shamed". Hell, a year ago you'd be kicked off the internet (social media platforms) as a racist (wat?) for saying the lab leak theory was plausible. And of course then there's the chilling effect.

prezjordan 5y ago
James Damore was fired by Google, not a mob. The people at Google who made this decision read his "manifesto."
- josephcsible 5y ago
  Okay, would saying "a mob bullied Google into firing James Damore" instead be better?
  - joshuamorton 5y ago
    Presumably the executives who fired him are intelligent people who can draw their own conclusions about what he did or didn't say. (I find it revealing that the reaction on HN is fundamentally that Damore was fired by a conspiracy. The executives must actually agree with him but were "bullied" by woke people or something, as though it's not possible that corporate leadership could find what he said problematic).
    - umvi 5y ago
      Corporations kowtow to the demands of Twitter mobs all the time, why should Google be an exception?
      - joshuamorton 5y ago
        In terms of firing people who don't deserve to be fired? The thing you're claiming is that the company/decision makers think damore was right (or that his opinion was irrelevant) and fired him only to save face. I don't think that happens regularly. I think sometimes someone points out that an employee is racist and the company fires that employee, but that's not "kowtowing", it's a combination of not working with assholes and taking customer feedback. I don't think the thing you're talking about happens much at all.
        umvi 5y ago

emmelaich 5y ago

> Amy Cooper ... Not saying what she did was justified, but there is more to the story. https://bariweiss.substack.com/p/the-real-story-of-the-central-park https://bariweiss.substack.com/p/the-real-story-of-the-centr... > "May 2020 testimony provided by Jerome Lockett, a black man who said Christian had “aggressively” threatened him in the park. Among the details: “when I saw that video, I thought, I cannot imagine if he approached her the same way how she may have genuinely been afraid for her life.” He continued, “If I wasn’t who I was, I would of [sic] called the police on that guy too.” Also see the talk page for https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_Park_birdwatching_incident https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_Park_birdwatching_inci...