> No the Chinese military or police would not stand any chance against the true popular will of the Chinese, not for a second. You might reconsider that after

> No the Chinese military or police would not stand any chance against the true popular will of the Chinese, not for a second. You might reconsider that after reading about the Gwangju uprising https://www.datasecretslox.com/index.php/topic,3506.0.html?PHPSESSID=d15c31b38395146f6e114073ff5a02d1 https://www.datasecretslox.com/index.php/topic,3506.0.html?P... TL;DR: an entire province's will was to oust the government, it ended in a massacre. Without examples of popular will causing an overthrow of an established, well-organized authoritarian state, I'm going to remain unconvinced that it's possible, or that there's any meaningful accountability to the people from the government - after all, who'll judge or stop them unless they implode? > they by and large if not support at least tolerate their state, Of course they are rational, like it's rational to submit yourself to an overwhelming power you can't fight, rather than die trying. That doesn't mean that it's not a problem that would benefit from external help. Quite the contrary, just ask the people who lost their organs. I take issue with the idea that a victimized society is responsible for its own state or that it can pull itself by the boot straps only if it wanted. If it was true, we would not have had totalitarian states at all.