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How about bills restricting voting access to people of color, or the ability to say the word “gay”? Those don’t qualify as material consequences for violating c
by philosopher1234 5y ago
How about bills restricting voting access to people of color, or the ability to say the word “gay”? Those don’t qualify as material consequences for violating conventions/ideology? You have a one sided view.
- honkdaddy 5y agoWhich bills restrict voting access for people of color?
- philosopher1234 5y agoRead the news some time.
- Skiiing 5y agoI consume a wide range of media every day and I've never seen a bill that "restricts voting access for people of color". It's an extraordinary claim so you would to need provide strong evidence, rather than being dismissive.
- philosopher1234 5y agoHere: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-ezra-klein-show/id1548604447?i=1000526827484 https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-ezra-klein-show/id... https://youtu.be/EN9OdruH_qM https://youtu.be/EN9OdruH_qM
- Skiiing 5y agoBy strong evidence I was hoping you'd link to the bill, or to factual reporting from a credible mainstream newspaper. If you're getting news from strongly opinionated talking-heads, then that might explain the disconnect.
- philosopher1234 5y agoForming conclusions about racism requires interpretation. Every time I trust one of you to be genuinely curious about the issue I’m disappointed, and here I am again, disappointed. Not particularly surprising though.
- honkdaddy 5y agoEzra Klein and John Oliver aren't news, they're entertainment personalities like Joe Rogan or Tucker Carlson. Though if they're a big part of your information diet as it is, I don't really see this being a fruitful conversation. /r/politics tends to accommodate to that kind of viewpoint a little more, I'd suggest moving the soapbox over there :)
- philosopher1234 5y agoJohn Oliver is more prone to histrionics, but Ezra Klein is genuinely insightful and thoughtful. He’s really a much better/more truthful journalist than joe Rogan or tucker.
- Timwi 5y ago> I consume a wide range of media every day and I've never seen a bill that "restricts voting access for people of color". Bills that restrict voting rights in America along racial lines are all over the news, even outside of America. That leaves only two possibilities. Either your range of media isn't as wide as you think, or you are in denial. You've already dismissed another commenter’s response, so I'm leaning towards the latter.
- honkdaddy 5y agoIf said bills are so well-known and all over the news, why not just link to one? This is HackerNews, if someone says "____ exists and it's a problem" and someone else politely asks "which ____ are you referring to?", the appropriate thing to do is to just reference the thing in question - we don't need to get pedantic about the range of one's media consumption.
- Timwi 5y agoThe reason I (and I assume other commenters, but I don't presume to speak on their behalf) don't care to dig up sources for you is because it's a waste of time. There are only two possibilities: either you're in denial, in which case there's nothing I can present to you that you won't also be in denial about; or you're not, in which case you can just search for it yourself (e.g. “bills that restrict voter rights in America”). Things that are all over the news are also generally easy to find.
- umvi 5y agoIt's because the bills in question don't actually explicitly restrict people of color from voting, they just make voting a little less convenient (i.e. a bill that you have to show a photo id to vote, for example, and a person of color might be statistically less likely to have a photo id than a non-person of color)
- josephcsible 5y ago> bills restricting voting access to people of color I'm not aware of any such bill. What's its name? And why is it not dead on arrival due to the Equal Protection Clause?
- philosopher1234 5y agoI’m not playing plausible deniability games with you. Everyone knows what the point of these bills are.
- josephcsible 5y agoHow is anything I said "plausible deniability games"? You claimed that bills exist that would restrict voting access to people of color. I asked you exactly which bills these are, and you can't/won't tell me.
- Timwi 5y agoThe reason they won't tell you is because you've already presented yourself as someone who would deny the racist goals of a bill merely because it doesn't explicitly mention race. Differently put: everyone knows what these bills are except people who are in denial of institutionalized racism. You've used an argument structure that is reminiscent of that used by people who are in denial of institutionalized racism. Therefore, it is assumed that you are in denial of institutionalized racism, and thus, there's no point telling you about the bills because you're just going to be in denial about them anyway. Meanwhile, anyone who is not in denial can just use any random search engine and find articles like this one: https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2021/03/25/vote-m25.html https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2021/03/25/vote-m25.html
- josephcsible 5y agoThis is a Kafka trap. You're setting up a world in which nobody can disagree with you without being in denial.