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What is important to understand is that both democratic and autocratic governments depend on legitimacy. No the Chinese military or police would not stand any c

What is important to understand is that both democratic and autocratic governments depend on legitimacy. No the Chinese military or police would not stand any chance against the true popular will of the Chinese, not for a second. That is why the Chinese government has economic growth targets and social programs and so forth. If they could rule like medieval kings they would. All modern, large states are accountable to their people, regardless of whatever form of government rules. People in power can be responsive to the people or irresponsive in both autocracies and democracies. The Chinese government is extremely responsive to popular opinion, even if its unelected. In that sense it's no different than a big company, which isn't governed by its customers but accountable to them. The important question isn't, "is it my problem", it's "is it a problem". The Chinese are not children and we're not their parents. Believe it or not they have rational thought in China as well. Using our rational thought means taking seriously the notion that the Chinese do not want our political system, that they by and large if not support at least tolerate their state, and that it's not our problem to solve, because it is not a problem.

rhn_mk1 5y ago
> No the Chinese military or police would not stand any chance against the true popular will of the Chinese, not for a second. You might reconsider that after reading about the Gwangju uprising https://www.datasecretslox.com/index.php/topic,3506.0.html?PHPSESSID=d15c31b38395146f6e114073ff5a02d1 https://www.datasecretslox.com/index.php/topic,3506.0.html?P... TL;DR: an entire province's will was to oust the government, it ended in a massacre. Without examples of popular will causing an overthrow of an established, well-organized authoritarian state, I'm going to remain unconvinced that it's possible, or that there's any meaningful accountability to the people from the government - after all, who'll judge or stop them unless they implode? > they by and large if not support at least tolerate their state, Of course they are rational, like it's rational to submit yourself to an overwhelming power you can't fight, rather than die trying. That doesn't mean that it's not a problem that would benefit from external help. Quite the contrary, just ask the people who lost their organs. I take issue with the idea that a victimized society is responsible for its own state or that it can pull itself by the boot straps only if it wanted. If it was true, we would not have had totalitarian states at all.

rhn_mk1 5y ago

> No the Chinese military or police would not stand any chance against the true popular will of the Chinese, not for a second. You might reconsider that after reading about the Gwangju uprising https://www.datasecretslox.com/index.php/topic,3506.0.html?PHPSESSID=d15c31b38395146f6e114073ff5a02d1 https://www.datasecretslox.com/index.php/topic,3506.0.html?P... TL;DR: an entire province's will was to oust the government, it ended in a massacre. Without examples of popular will causing an overthrow of an established, well-organized authoritarian state, I'm going to remain unconvinced that it's possible, or that there's any meaningful accountability to the people from the government - after all, who'll judge or stop them unless they implode? > they by and large if not support at least tolerate their state, Of course they are rational, like it's rational to submit yourself to an overwhelming power you can't fight, rather than die trying. That doesn't mean that it's not a problem that would benefit from external help. Quite the contrary, just ask the people who lost their organs. I take issue with the idea that a victimized society is responsible for its own state or that it can pull itself by the boot straps only if it wanted. If it was true, we would not have had totalitarian states at all.