3 ms·

Is out true that this one factory is the source of 80% of all semiconductor manufacturing coolant? This sounds horrendous.

javajosh 4y ago
Sure, but I bet there are a lot of things like that. It's probably even a "reverse power law", and something that neoliberal capitalism is actually really good at dealing with. I bet right now this minute there is a lot of money talking about what it would take to spin up an alternative, not because they're nice, but because there are big profits available when demand is high, and supply low.
- wonnage 4y ago
  I remember reading something similar with China’s dominance of rare earth elements - the US has plenty of mines but it costs too much to mine them and the entire rest of the supply chain is in China, so there’s not much domestic demand
  - Borrible 4y ago
    Rare earths aren't rare, they're dirty. But the Chinese don't care. One reason why they can offer them cheaper. No one cares how the stuff is produced there. Expendable environment, expendable worker. https://www.heritage.org/defense/commentary/rare-earth-elements-arent-rare-theyre-vital-national-security https://www.heritage.org/defense/commentary/rare-earth-eleme...
- arrosenberg 4y ago
  You did a great job of making the case against neoliberal capitalism. Why should anyone tolerate a system that incentivizes hostage taking? It makes far more sense to have a working government that goes "hey, we need to diversify this sector" and creates the proper incentives for capital to chase.
  - csdvrx 4y ago
    > It makes far more sense to have a working government that goes "hey, we need to diversify this sector" and creates the proper incentives for capital to chase. Except governments have no incentive to look at such opportunities in advances. A capitalist company has a profit motive to look at everything that can go wrong, and react accordingly and quickly. See the MTT GPU as an example of such response: they bought PowerVR when it made sense to. Now GPUs are in shortage because there are priced too low, because they have only 2 manufacturers who don't want to get a bad reputation of "predatory pricing". New entrants may care less, and even a GPU that's only competitive to the 1070 may sell if it's more easily available. I do not think a bailout of PowerVR would have had such results. It may also have come with strings attached, reducing the flexibility needed.
    - arrosenberg 4y ago
      > A capitalist company has a profit motive to look at everything that can go wrong, and react accordingly and quickly. My suggestion also involved capitalist companies. If what you are saying us true, why is the supply chain so messed up? Why didn’t the laissez faire proponents foresee this and react? There is plenty of profit to be made, where are the new entrants? Im not familiar with the specific company mentioned, but GPUs are in shortage because the market became concentrated (the end result of neoliberal economics) and a supply shock inevitably broke it. Everything you mention about pricing is a post hoc effect of that. A more interventionist government would see that and use antitrust laws and subsidies to create a more robust marketplace, while neoliberals go “this is fine” while the room is in fire.

javajosh 4y ago

Sure, but I bet there are a lot of things like that. It's probably even a "reverse power law", and something that neoliberal capitalism is actually really good at dealing with. I bet right now this minute there is a lot of money talking about what it would take to spin up an alternative, not because they're nice, but because there are big profits available when demand is high, and supply low.

wonnage 4y ago
I remember reading something similar with China’s dominance of rare earth elements - the US has plenty of mines but it costs too much to mine them and the entire rest of the supply chain is in China, so there’s not much domestic demand
- Borrible 4y ago
  Rare earths aren't rare, they're dirty. But the Chinese don't care. One reason why they can offer them cheaper. No one cares how the stuff is produced there. Expendable environment, expendable worker. https://www.heritage.org/defense/commentary/rare-earth-elements-arent-rare-theyre-vital-national-security https://www.heritage.org/defense/commentary/rare-earth-eleme...
arrosenberg 4y ago
You did a great job of making the case against neoliberal capitalism. Why should anyone tolerate a system that incentivizes hostage taking? It makes far more sense to have a working government that goes "hey, we need to diversify this sector" and creates the proper incentives for capital to chase.
- csdvrx 4y ago
  > It makes far more sense to have a working government that goes "hey, we need to diversify this sector" and creates the proper incentives for capital to chase. Except governments have no incentive to look at such opportunities in advances. A capitalist company has a profit motive to look at everything that can go wrong, and react accordingly and quickly. See the MTT GPU as an example of such response: they bought PowerVR when it made sense to. Now GPUs are in shortage because there are priced too low, because they have only 2 manufacturers who don't want to get a bad reputation of "predatory pricing". New entrants may care less, and even a GPU that's only competitive to the 1070 may sell if it's more easily available. I do not think a bailout of PowerVR would have had such results. It may also have come with strings attached, reducing the flexibility needed.
  - arrosenberg 4y ago
    > A capitalist company has a profit motive to look at everything that can go wrong, and react accordingly and quickly. My suggestion also involved capitalist companies. If what you are saying us true, why is the supply chain so messed up? Why didn’t the laissez faire proponents foresee this and react? There is plenty of profit to be made, where are the new entrants? Im not familiar with the specific company mentioned, but GPUs are in shortage because the market became concentrated (the end result of neoliberal economics) and a supply shock inevitably broke it. Everything you mention about pricing is a post hoc effect of that. A more interventionist government would see that and use antitrust laws and subsidies to create a more robust marketplace, while neoliberals go “this is fine” while the room is in fire.