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Is "honest and forthright" really the only qualification for working at Google? What about being professional? Meaning... getting your work done in a way that

Is "honest and forthright" really the only qualification for working at Google? What about being professional? Meaning... getting your work done in a way that you're not making other people hate you? I can totally imagine a workplace where "It's not your problem if other people hate you" is the norm. And I'm happy for people who find an employer like that and enjoy that. But does every workplace need to be like that? What's wrong with a workplace saying "you need to be clued in to how your colleagues are affected by you"? For me, that's table stakes in being a profesional.

zozbot234 5y ago
> Meaning... getting your work done in a way that you're not making other people hate you? "Making other people hate you"? Blaming a victim of vicious abuse for what his abusers were doing is very much not cool.
- derevaunseraun 5y ago
  But they aren't abusers. How would you feel if you were a female SWE and had to work with someone who considers you "biologically inferior"? IMO Google did right by firing him
  - zozbot234 5y ago
    > How would you feel if you were a female SWE and had to work with someone who considers you "biologically inferior"? A good example of something Damore did not say. Even wrt. engineering skills in the narrowest sense, it's quite possible for women to meet the same standards as men; there will just be many fewer of them since a mixture of biological and cultural factors make for a significantly bigger pipeline on the male compared to the female side. Damore suggested ways to make the job more appealing to women and reduce this disparity.
    - derevaunseraun 5y ago
      Interesting. Do you have a quote of where he said this?
      - rendall 5y ago
        Read his memo, carefully and charitably. He says it entirely throughout, and it is extremely clear. Do you have a quote where he said women are biologically inferior? You do not, because he did not.
        derevaunseraun 5y ago
        "Hiring practices which can effectively lower the bar for “diversity” candidates by decreasing the false negative rate" "I’m simply stating that the distribution of preferences and abilities of men and women differ in part due to biological causes and that these differences may explain why we don’t see equal representation of women in tech and leadership." And throughout the memo he keeps parroting this ridiculous line that women are more "neurotic" than men. Sorry, but I'm incapable of reading something this insipid with a charitable eye
        rendall 5y ago
        If you already believe he said women are biologically inferior, enough to throw quotes around it, you have a lot of work to do to unwind that bias. Most people would not be able to do it, especially if they are motivated reasoners. I might respectfully suggest you try again. If it will help you, he doesn't say women are more neurotic. What he says, truthfully, is that women on average score higher in neuroticism than men do in the Big 5 personality traits. It's a term in psychology with a specific meaning, it no doubt has a citation in his memo, and it has direct relevance to why there are fewer women in leadership roles. If the intent is to have more women in leadership roles, and this is true, it should be addressed, yeah? The memo suggests ways to do that. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neuroticism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neuroticism Apparently, this is a heresy: "The distribution of preferences and abilities of men and women differ in part due to biological causes."
- pessimizer 5y ago
  I hope this is intentional satire, although I fear it's not. Reversing woke discourse to protect the people you approve of isn't anti-woke, it's just more orthodoxy policing.

zozbot234 5y ago

> Meaning... getting your work done in a way that you're not making other people hate you? "Making other people hate you"? Blaming a victim of vicious abuse for what his abusers were doing is very much not cool.

derevaunseraun 5y ago
But they aren't abusers. How would you feel if you were a female SWE and had to work with someone who considers you "biologically inferior"? IMO Google did right by firing him
- zozbot234 5y ago
  > How would you feel if you were a female SWE and had to work with someone who considers you "biologically inferior"? A good example of something Damore did not say. Even wrt. engineering skills in the narrowest sense, it's quite possible for women to meet the same standards as men; there will just be many fewer of them since a mixture of biological and cultural factors make for a significantly bigger pipeline on the male compared to the female side. Damore suggested ways to make the job more appealing to women and reduce this disparity.
  - derevaunseraun 5y ago
    Interesting. Do you have a quote of where he said this?
    - rendall 5y ago
      Read his memo, carefully and charitably. He says it entirely throughout, and it is extremely clear. Do you have a quote where he said women are biologically inferior? You do not, because he did not.
      - derevaunseraun 5y ago
        "Hiring practices which can effectively lower the bar for “diversity” candidates by decreasing the false negative rate" "I’m simply stating that the distribution of preferences and abilities of men and women differ in part due to biological causes and that these differences may explain why we don’t see equal representation of women in tech and leadership." And throughout the memo he keeps parroting this ridiculous line that women are more "neurotic" than men. Sorry, but I'm incapable of reading something this insipid with a charitable eye
        rendall 5y ago
        If you already believe he said women are biologically inferior, enough to throw quotes around it, you have a lot of work to do to unwind that bias. Most people would not be able to do it, especially if they are motivated reasoners. I might respectfully suggest you try again. If it will help you, he doesn't say women are more neurotic. What he says, truthfully, is that women on average score higher in neuroticism than men do in the Big 5 personality traits. It's a term in psychology with a specific meaning, it no doubt has a citation in his memo, and it has direct relevance to why there are fewer women in leadership roles. If the intent is to have more women in leadership roles, and this is true, it should be addressed, yeah? The memo suggests ways to do that. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neuroticism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neuroticism Apparently, this is a heresy: "The distribution of preferences and abilities of men and women differ in part due to biological causes."
pessimizer 5y ago
I hope this is intentional satire, although I fear it's not. Reversing woke discourse to protect the people you approve of isn't anti-woke, it's just more orthodoxy policing.