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Paul Graham grew up in a time when rich middle-aged white men with no relevant experience or credential could spout off about whatever topic they wanted, includ

Paul Graham grew up in a time when rich middle-aged white men with no relevant experience or credential could spout off about whatever topic they wanted, including pseudo-intellectual racism/misogyny, and everyone would be forced to listen to their nonsense unable to respond with more than an eye-roll for fear of reprisals. (For that matter, when Graham grew up those powerful white dudes could beat people up, sexually assault people, etc. with no consequence.) Now when they spout similar nonsense, such dudes are publicly criticized, and the criticism deeply shocks and distresses them, to the point that whiny white/male supremacist grievance has now entirely taken over a whole US political party, which is trying to outlaw public criticism of white/male supremacist ideology. Edit: Disclaimer to satisfy rayiner: I am a 6'2" married 36-year-old straight white male homeowner with 2 kids and a car. Edit #2: Folks may enjoy https://popehat.substack.com/p/our-fundamental-right-to-shame-and https://popehat.substack.com/p/our-fundamental-right-to-sham...

NoraCodes 5y ago
> the criticism deeply shocks and distresses them This is a really good point. It's frustrating, though predictable, to see people arguing about the precise threshold of "harm" to which speech should be held in the comments here when the harm done to most people Graham seems to be defending amounts to "someone was mean to me on the Internet." And - yeah! That sucks! People being mean to you on the internet sucks. But until people like this are defending every target of KF/ED/4chan/etc hate mobs just as vehemently, I'm not really interested in treating them like they're neutral, rational parties.
rayiner 5y ago
- NoraCodes 5y ago
  How's that? The point being made here is that he is used to people in his position in society having a certain freedom from criticism, and therefore sees any vulnerability to criticism as a loss of freedom. This is an equally valid point whether the commenter is white or black, man or woman, old or young.
  - FerociousTimes 5y ago
    Can't you see the irony of your statement accusing PG of not tolerating criticism on his business' online public forum and under the topic of one of his essays and with a thread headed by your unequivocal rejection of his views on the issue at hand? I sincerely can't see your conclusion about the immunity from criticism that PG purportedly enjoys in all of this and that's the root cause of his disapproval and denouncement of cancel culture.
    - NoraCodes 5y ago
      Your wording is a bit odd, so let me make sure I understand what you're saying. You feel that it's ironic that, on a post about how Graham doesn't like it when people like him are criticized in specific, I criticized him, and told someone else that their particular criticism - one which is completely different from that which Graham is discussing - doesn't make sense? > your conclusion about the immunity from criticism that PG purportedly enjoys Not "PG ... enjoys"; a kind of immunity that people _like_ Graham _used to_ enjoy. That I can call him a dickhead on the internet with no repercussions is exactly what he doesn't like. > cancel culture Saying I don't agree with an essay on HackerNews is not "cancel culture."
      - FerociousTimes 5y ago
        A bit of strawman and moving the goal posts here Instead of debating whether PG tolerates criticism for his views, now it's whether he likes it or not, and instead of whether he enjoys immunity from criticism or not, now it used to be the case in the past but not anymore. In the spirit of good debate, I will concede on the latter and conclude with the advent of social media, this renders it a moot point but on the former we can attest that he got a thick skin and can take a lot of hits from critics, don't you agree? Now to the strawman, his central thesis boils down to this; people shouldn't lose their jobs merely for expressing their views, and to show some leniency and consideration for people's personal circumstances and track record of past good deeds when found guilty by the vindictive justice championed by the online mob and not to throw the baby with the bathwater. Is this really objectionable in your opinion?
ambrozk 5y ago
This is a pretty shocking fairytale version of the past.
- gilbetron 5y ago
  I don't think you lived in the past. Racist jokes were told by teachers in school to their class. Minorities in work environments would be told racist jokes by white dudes to their face and they had to laugh at them or be fired. White dudes could basically say whatever they want, as long as it wasn't about another white dude (or their families). The past was probably more shocking than you realize it was.
alanlammiman 5y ago
I am a 35 year old straight married white male homeowner and businessowner who identifies as reasonably right-wing and I endorse this comment.

NoraCodes 5y ago

> the criticism deeply shocks and distresses them This is a really good point. It's frustrating, though predictable, to see people arguing about the precise threshold of "harm" to which speech should be held in the comments here when the harm done to most people Graham seems to be defending amounts to "someone was mean to me on the Internet." And - yeah! That sucks! People being mean to you on the internet sucks. But until people like this are defending every target of KF/ED/4chan/etc hate mobs just as vehemently, I'm not really interested in treating them like they're neutral, rational parties.

rayiner 5y ago

NoraCodes 5y ago
How's that? The point being made here is that he is used to people in his position in society having a certain freedom from criticism, and therefore sees any vulnerability to criticism as a loss of freedom. This is an equally valid point whether the commenter is white or black, man or woman, old or young.
- FerociousTimes 5y ago
  Can't you see the irony of your statement accusing PG of not tolerating criticism on his business' online public forum and under the topic of one of his essays and with a thread headed by your unequivocal rejection of his views on the issue at hand? I sincerely can't see your conclusion about the immunity from criticism that PG purportedly enjoys in all of this and that's the root cause of his disapproval and denouncement of cancel culture.
  - NoraCodes 5y ago
    Your wording is a bit odd, so let me make sure I understand what you're saying. You feel that it's ironic that, on a post about how Graham doesn't like it when people like him are criticized in specific, I criticized him, and told someone else that their particular criticism - one which is completely different from that which Graham is discussing - doesn't make sense? > your conclusion about the immunity from criticism that PG purportedly enjoys Not "PG ... enjoys"; a kind of immunity that people _like_ Graham _used to_ enjoy. That I can call him a dickhead on the internet with no repercussions is exactly what he doesn't like. > cancel culture Saying I don't agree with an essay on HackerNews is not "cancel culture."
    - FerociousTimes 5y ago
      A bit of strawman and moving the goal posts here Instead of debating whether PG tolerates criticism for his views, now it's whether he likes it or not, and instead of whether he enjoys immunity from criticism or not, now it used to be the case in the past but not anymore. In the spirit of good debate, I will concede on the latter and conclude with the advent of social media, this renders it a moot point but on the former we can attest that he got a thick skin and can take a lot of hits from critics, don't you agree? Now to the strawman, his central thesis boils down to this; people shouldn't lose their jobs merely for expressing their views, and to show some leniency and consideration for people's personal circumstances and track record of past good deeds when found guilty by the vindictive justice championed by the online mob and not to throw the baby with the bathwater. Is this really objectionable in your opinion?

ambrozk 5y ago

This is a pretty shocking fairytale version of the past.

gilbetron 5y ago
I don't think you lived in the past. Racist jokes were told by teachers in school to their class. Minorities in work environments would be told racist jokes by white dudes to their face and they had to laugh at them or be fired. White dudes could basically say whatever they want, as long as it wasn't about another white dude (or their families). The past was probably more shocking than you realize it was.

alanlammiman 5y ago

I am a 35 year old straight married white male homeowner and businessowner who identifies as reasonably right-wing and I endorse this comment.