4 ms·

In the 90s and 2000s it would be “heresy” to be a gay or transgendered person. I remember sadly how people in hushed tones would talk about coworkers. There wa

In the 90s and 2000s it would be “heresy” to be a gay or transgendered person. I remember sadly how people in hushed tones would talk about coworkers. There was a bro-y norm to engineering culture that you didn’t defy very easily. I'm a bit surprised how easily people forget these things.

vasco 5y ago
> There was a bro-y norm to engineering culture There _was_? I'm not sure what field of engineering you're in, but in software, hardware and electrical engineering which are the ones I have the most contact within 3 countries in Europe, this is the norm today. Through friends in mechanical and civil engineering I get the sense it's even worse there.
- randomsearch 5y ago
  I’ve seen glimpses of this in tech recently. Could you please give some explicit examples? I’ve been sheltered from it for a long time and I’m wondering if what I’ve seen are examples of what everyone means by “brogrammers”.
catears 5y ago
I also thought about transgender and gay rights. Heresy to me sounds like it comes from an intolerant society. At least in regards to LGBTQ+ rights it feels like society has (thankfully!) become more tolerant. How many people would be fired from their job today if they said they are gay compared to 30-60 years ago? Maybe PG is talking about specific contexts like academia, media, or tech companies though?
odonnellryan 5y ago
Yes great point. What we do is trade off "wrong-being" for "wrong-thought" or "wrong-talk."
golemiprague 5y ago
haihaibye 5y ago
> people in hushed tones would talk about coworkers If they were still co workers, it wasn't treated as a fireable offence like the modern heresies
- krainboltgreene 5y ago
  I mean you could do a modicum of research and find that people were often fired for being gay or trans. Still are, far more than "cancel culture".
Skiiing 5y ago
Are you talking from a US/European perspective? Being gay was entirely open and mainstream in the 90s/2000s. Although I'm not sure what that has to do with heresy which was the topic of the essay.
- softwaredoug 5y ago
  Gay marriage was only legalized in the US in 2015. Barack Obama couldn't openly support gay marriage in 2012 or 2008 due to political repercussions. Matthew Shepard was killed in 1998 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matthew_Shepard https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matthew_Shepard) In my 90s high school slurs like f*g, etc were commonplace. It cropped up in popular media like Bill and Ted's Bogus Journey (where now its bleeped)

vasco 5y ago

> There was a bro-y norm to engineering culture There _was_? I'm not sure what field of engineering you're in, but in software, hardware and electrical engineering which are the ones I have the most contact within 3 countries in Europe, this is the norm today. Through friends in mechanical and civil engineering I get the sense it's even worse there.

randomsearch 5y ago
I’ve seen glimpses of this in tech recently. Could you please give some explicit examples? I’ve been sheltered from it for a long time and I’m wondering if what I’ve seen are examples of what everyone means by “brogrammers”.

catears 5y ago

I also thought about transgender and gay rights. Heresy to me sounds like it comes from an intolerant society. At least in regards to LGBTQ+ rights it feels like society has (thankfully!) become more tolerant. How many people would be fired from their job today if they said they are gay compared to 30-60 years ago? Maybe PG is talking about specific contexts like academia, media, or tech companies though?

odonnellryan 5y ago

Yes great point. What we do is trade off "wrong-being" for "wrong-thought" or "wrong-talk."

golemiprague 5y ago

haihaibye 5y ago

> people in hushed tones would talk about coworkers If they were still co workers, it wasn't treated as a fireable offence like the modern heresies

krainboltgreene 5y ago
I mean you could do a modicum of research and find that people were often fired for being gay or trans. Still are, far more than "cancel culture".

Skiiing 5y ago

Are you talking from a US/European perspective? Being gay was entirely open and mainstream in the 90s/2000s. Although I'm not sure what that has to do with heresy which was the topic of the essay.

softwaredoug 5y ago
Gay marriage was only legalized in the US in 2015. Barack Obama couldn't openly support gay marriage in 2012 or 2008 due to political repercussions. Matthew Shepard was killed in 1998 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matthew_Shepard https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matthew_Shepard) In my 90s high school slurs like f*g, etc were commonplace. It cropped up in popular media like Bill and Ted's Bogus Journey (where now its bleeped)