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> While you can get some benefits from simply practicing meditation, it can feel a bit aimless Isn’t that… the point of meditation?

david-gpu 5y ago
Different types of meditation have different goals, somewhat like different types of exercise have different goals. Meditation isn't about closing your eyes and doing nothing. It takes effort, at least until you are proficient.
solarengineer 5y ago
When I practiced mindfulness meditation, I was incredibly in the moment. Zero distractions.
float4 5y ago
I think they're mainly referring to the "what am I doing here?" phase that most people seem to go through when they start meditating. It's exactly why I never managed to make a habit out of it.
spicymaki 5y ago
>> While you can get some benefits from simply practicing meditation, it can feel a bit aimless > Isn’t that… the point of meditation? Absolutely not! The secularization of meditation in the west has completely divorced meditation from it's original purpose (in the Buddhist context). Meditation is a complete mental training program. Monks did not just sit there on a cushion; they worked with teachers, reflected on ideas, and gained insights. There is a mistaken view that meditation is just sitting there, but meditation is an active practice that includes eating, walking, cleaning, etc. Being divorced from tradition is what makes it aimless and pointless. I am not personally against secularization, but if we are going to extract ideas from these traditions, we should honor them and make them work effectively in our modern lives.
- gunfighthacksaw 5y ago
  IMO making meditation a productive activity with (shudder) metrics is far more divorced from tradition. Again, isn’t aimlessness the point of Buddhism? Taming and mastering the ‘I’ and it’s worldly attachments like aiming for things?
  - spicymaki 5y ago
    I am not exactly sure which tradition you speak of. From Theravada to Mahayana meditation has been practiced via sitting, chanting, walking, and work practice for over 2000 years. It is this arbitrary separation of sitting meditation from other practices such as walking and work that is exactly the problem with the modern appropriation of meditation.
- cscurmudgeon 5y ago
  > The secularization of meditation in the west has completely divorced meditation from it's original purpose (in the Buddhist context). FYI: Meditation originated in Hinduism where the original purpose was connection with God (as part of Yoga, the physical yoga is more recent). The earliest records of meditation can be found in Upanishads. Originally, meditation was highly directed. Buddhism removed the God aspect. And a few thousand years later, the West has secularized it even more. One part of this secularization has been to ignore the origins of meditation.
  - dr_dshiv 5y ago
    Meditation was also used in the West, too. The Greek Egyptian Plotinus described meditation practices, for instance.
  - spicymaki 5y ago
    Yes, there is a lot of complexity to what you mentioned. That is why I bracketed it: in the Buddhist context. The Buddha came out of the Vedic tradition (ancient Hinduism) so I agree that meditation practice is sourced from there. I cannot speak to what other Gurus were doing at that era. Believe it or not there are deities (devas) in Buddhist Cosmology. The deity Brahma appears in much of early Buddhist scripture. Gods were not eliminated, but reduced in terms of importance. In the West the “sit and do nothing practice” was extracted from the Shikantaza practice of the Zen tradition. The problem is Zen includes all practice as part of meditative practice. There is no separation. This is not exclusive to Zen either. It is how Buddhism has been practiced in monasteries for over two thousand years.

david-gpu 5y ago

Different types of meditation have different goals, somewhat like different types of exercise have different goals. Meditation isn't about closing your eyes and doing nothing. It takes effort, at least until you are proficient.

solarengineer 5y ago

When I practiced mindfulness meditation, I was incredibly in the moment. Zero distractions.

float4 5y ago

I think they're mainly referring to the "what am I doing here?" phase that most people seem to go through when they start meditating. It's exactly why I never managed to make a habit out of it.

spicymaki 5y ago

>> While you can get some benefits from simply practicing meditation, it can feel a bit aimless > Isn’t that… the point of meditation? Absolutely not! The secularization of meditation in the west has completely divorced meditation from it's original purpose (in the Buddhist context). Meditation is a complete mental training program. Monks did not just sit there on a cushion; they worked with teachers, reflected on ideas, and gained insights. There is a mistaken view that meditation is just sitting there, but meditation is an active practice that includes eating, walking, cleaning, etc. Being divorced from tradition is what makes it aimless and pointless. I am not personally against secularization, but if we are going to extract ideas from these traditions, we should honor them and make them work effectively in our modern lives.

gunfighthacksaw 5y ago
IMO making meditation a productive activity with (shudder) metrics is far more divorced from tradition. Again, isn’t aimlessness the point of Buddhism? Taming and mastering the ‘I’ and it’s worldly attachments like aiming for things?
- spicymaki 5y ago
  I am not exactly sure which tradition you speak of. From Theravada to Mahayana meditation has been practiced via sitting, chanting, walking, and work practice for over 2000 years. It is this arbitrary separation of sitting meditation from other practices such as walking and work that is exactly the problem with the modern appropriation of meditation.
cscurmudgeon 5y ago
> The secularization of meditation in the west has completely divorced meditation from it's original purpose (in the Buddhist context). FYI: Meditation originated in Hinduism where the original purpose was connection with God (as part of Yoga, the physical yoga is more recent). The earliest records of meditation can be found in Upanishads. Originally, meditation was highly directed. Buddhism removed the God aspect. And a few thousand years later, the West has secularized it even more. One part of this secularization has been to ignore the origins of meditation.
- dr_dshiv 5y ago
  Meditation was also used in the West, too. The Greek Egyptian Plotinus described meditation practices, for instance.
- spicymaki 5y ago
  Yes, there is a lot of complexity to what you mentioned. That is why I bracketed it: in the Buddhist context. The Buddha came out of the Vedic tradition (ancient Hinduism) so I agree that meditation practice is sourced from there. I cannot speak to what other Gurus were doing at that era. Believe it or not there are deities (devas) in Buddhist Cosmology. The deity Brahma appears in much of early Buddhist scripture. Gods were not eliminated, but reduced in terms of importance. In the West the “sit and do nothing practice” was extracted from the Shikantaza practice of the Zen tradition. The problem is Zen includes all practice as part of meditative practice. There is no separation. This is not exclusive to Zen either. It is how Buddhism has been practiced in monasteries for over two thousand years.